New Secondary Schools for Richmond 4

(1001 Posts)
BayJay2 Fri 09-Nov-12 21:26:33

Welcome. This is the fourth (or perhaps fifth) in a series of threads about Richmond Secondary Schools.

The discussion was originally triggered by Richmond council's publication of its Education White Paper in February 2011. It started with two parallel threads here and here.

In November 2011 the most active of the original two threads reached 1000 messages (the maximum allowed) so we continued the conversation here.

That thread filled up in May 2012, and was continued here.

It's now November 2012, and once again we're at the start of a new thread ....

LProsser Mon 08-Jul-13 15:10:01

Haymarket's move to Egerton Road is now covered in RTT:

I forgot that they also have to fit housing onto the site. Not sure if the 21 acres includes the Craneford Way playing field. It says Richmond Council is committing £10 million but I assume this is money for the secondary school not for Haymarket.

muminlondon2 Mon 08-Jul-13 18:06:53

Article on the DfE's FOI disclosure of free school impact assessments in the Observer yesterday: Free schools set up in areas 'with no need'

The Maharishi school in Lancashire was set up in an area with 370 spare places within a mile radius. It only cost £24,000 in start-up funding but £651,810 in capital costs (this was for refurbishment as the school already owned its building). That is about a third of Richmond's annual maintenance budget for all school buildings.

The article also links to a Guardian article on increases to class sizes in areas where there are shortages. According to the 2013 school census, there are eight Richmond primaries in this position. Three are RC schools but none are CofE schools.

ChrisSquire2 Sat 13-Jul-13 01:02:16

The Kingston Guardian has Opening of Kingston secondary school delayed to 2015:

. . The Kingston Educational Trust (KET), applied to the parliamentary under secretary of state for schools to defer opening of the building until September 2015 . . [they] said the decision was due to “a combination of practical and other factors” . .

Another assumption underpinning Richmond council’s dodgy forecast of school place demand bites the dust.

ChrisSquire2 Sat 13-Jul-13 12:51:25

I gather that the proposal for the Egerton Road site is that there should be 4 linked buildings on the A316 frontage coming down by stages from 5 storeys to 2. From the Harlequins End they will be, in order, Haymarket, Tertiary College new building, new secondary school, Clarendon school. Road access will be from the A316 . . the College will reduce from 4600 to 2800 pupils and some reduction in the range of subjects offered seems likely. The secondary will be Year 7 to Year 11 with 750 pupils in, presumably, 5 forms of entry.

There will be a significant funding gap even with the enabling development which the College/Council/Govt will have to fill.

muminlondon2 Mon 15-Jul-13 00:04:56

'Another assumption underpinning Richmond council’s dodgy forecast of school place demand bites the dust.'

Not sure what you mean - they did assume the school would open in 2015 not earlier. It's smaller than forecast but there are extra places at Tiffin which may also draw from Richmond or North Kingston.

ChrisSquire2 Mon 15-Jul-13 00:25:11

muminlondon2: thanks for the correction - I assumed without checking the year was 2014.

ChrisSquire2 Mon 15-Jul-13 10:46:11

The council forecast assumes . . the establishment of a eight-form entry secondary school in north Kingston in 2015, which would free up 100+ places at Grey Court and Christ’s for Richmond Borough children . . The school is to be 6 forms of entry only so it will [if the council's other assumptions still hold] free up 75+ places, a shortfall of 25.

We need fresh forecasts of supply and demand taking account of everything that has happened since the last ones were done by the council, the borough Lib Dems and by RISC.

LProsser Mon 15-Jul-13 12:00:41

Chris - I agree that a lot has happened since that forecast was made, including Kingston Council pointing out that it needs the new North Kingston school places for Kingston children aswell as the ones at Grey Court (where I think about 2/3 children live on the Kingston side of the line but still very close to Grey Court compared to where most LB Richmond children live). I wouldn't have thought many children from North Kingston would be at Christ's except for ones that get in on religious grounds.

Are there any plans for the Egerton Road site online or is it all just local politicians talking about the deal Lord True has done at the mo?

muminlondon2 Mon 15-Jul-13 14:39:47

If Christ's offered 35 out of borough places this year either the 75 foundation places have a very wide catchment or the open places were offered further afield. That's now a realistic option for the 50 or so taking foundation places at St Stephen's, St Mary's or Archdeacon Cambridge, assuming theirs were also filled.

ChrisSquire2 Tue 16-Jul-13 01:10:04

LProsser: There are no more details, on or off line: I’ll post what I gather as I get it.

So far there are no deals, no planning applications, no free school bid, only discussions with Haymarket, I think. Haymarket must be pursuing other options, so it may be that nothing will come of this scheme.

LProsser Tue 16-Jul-13 18:22:20

Teddington School Governors have just announced that after 24 applications and interviewing 5 shortlisted candidates for Head they have decided that none of them were suitable. It does seem that getting secondary school heads is a bit problematic around here.

muminlondon2 Thu 18-Jul-13 14:31:18

Just noticed a news item on the DfE website about 2013 targeted basic need funding. This is £820m of capital funding to create school places outside the free school programme in 45 new schools and in 333 existing schools.

The two approved projects for Richmond are for Strathmore and Clarendon schools.

Hounslow has funding to expand a number of its primary schools e.g. in Isleworth, which would relieve pressure on Richmond. Kingston has funding for Dysart school which is for children with severe and complex learning disabilities. In Hammersmith and Fulham, Sacred Heart has funding which looks like its intake will expand by 30 places.

muminlondon2 Thu 18-Jul-13 16:41:10

The updated census figures with numbers residing in the borough are here. Total residing in the borough/attending Richmond primaries are:

Y6 - 1443 attending, 266 from other LAs = 1177
Y5 - 1693 attending, 236 from other LAs = 1457
Y4 - 1857 attending, 247 from other LAs = 1610
Y3 - 1920 attending, 261 from other LAs = 1659

Numbers residing and not attending in the borough are 50-60 in those year groups.

In Kingston there is not much evidence of a rise in pupil numbers until Y3 (2016 entry) when there are about 150 more in Y3 than Y6 attending Kingston schools (or 250 more residing in the borough but attending elsewhere).

muminlondon2 Thu 18-Jul-13 19:34:25

I have no idea why those figures look different in different tables!

muminlondon2 Thu 18-Jul-13 21:50:23

And the new places at Sacred Heart Hammersmith are in the sixth form.

ChrisSquire2 Fri 19-Jul-13 01:23:26

Here's an upbeat email from the Turing House team:

. . We recently had our ‘kick off’ meeting with our attached advisers from the Department for Education. That begins a series of regular meetings, which will make sure everything is on track for opening our school in September 2014.

We know the biggest question in everyone’s mind is our school site. Our proposal suggested a number of local options, and we’re pleased to report that the Government is making very promising progress in pursuing these. We can’t reveal details yet because that might prejudice the outcome, but we'll update everyone when we get news that we can share. In the meantime, please be reassured that it is very common for free schools to be without a confirmed site at this stage, and we remain confident that premises will be secured in time for our opening date.

Despite the site uncertainty, families of children who are due to transfer to secondary school in 2014 can apply now, without obligation, for a place at Turing House . . We’ll be back in touch again in August, with some news about our Headship appointment . .

LProsser Fri 19-Jul-13 08:37:55

Those figures for the increase in children from this year's Yr 6 to this year's Yr 3 are huge - nearly 500 more children with the figures for out of borough not really increasing at all so all LB Richmond residents. Pleased to hear that Turing House has some other options for a site. This came round from the Teddington Society today about NPL:

"Herewith the expected notification of the building of new laboratories with office facilities on the Queens Road side of the laboratory site - not far from the ex-Ship Tank site which starred with Barnes Wallis's Bouncing Bomb in the Dambusters film..

The original Planning Applications for the Admiralty Way and new Hampton Road NPL Laboratories was granted on the condition that all the buildings around Bushy House except the Bell Tower Cottage would be demolished to create an open vista all round Bushy House. There was also an agreement that at the request of the Queens Road Residents' Association (QRRA), that the pre-war footpath and gate into Bushy Park would be reinstated - hence the new entrance into Bushy Park from Queens Road.

Subsequently, further planning applications which included permission for temporary retention of some of the buildings originally due for demolition were granted, including Building 2. Had all the buildings due for demolition been demolished, the Clapperstile car park would be twice as large as it is today. NPL seem pretty confident that their Planning Application will be approved, which will consign the Turing House School plan for the site to the dustbin.

If the application is granted, what would be welcomed by QRRA, is the reinstatement of the original decorative NPL Iron Gates to Queens Road, which are presently languishing rather sadly, and unseen, in front of one of the Hampton Road Laboratories. These gates also starred in the Dambusters' film. "

I don't think the "dustbin" comment is meant unkindly by the way - the writer was very supportive of RISC.

muminlondon2 Fri 19-Jul-13 18:03:55

'Those figures for the increase in children from this year's Yr 6 to this year's Yr 3 are huge - nearly 500 more children with the figures for out of borough not really increasing'

Actually, it would be good for the council to give an update in September because it's so easy to misinterpret or misrepresent data. There are other things to factor in.

1. Pupil retention/replacement in the upper KS2 years. Admittedly that's looking much better now - perhaps less than 5% Y6 places unfilled compared with Y3 in 2010.

2. Some of the increases are in the RC primaries and those pupils are likely to go to RC secondaries. There are around 250 Y6 pupils and 300 Y3 pupils.

3. We've traditionally had at least 20% of Y6 pupils going private or going to Tiffin (if not more).

4. There will still be a few unfilled places although not as many as the 200 we had last year, especially because there are 90 fewer sponsored academy places.

5. Not all the increases are in Twickenham - about 40% of the increase by 2016 is on the Richmond/Barnes/Ham side and most will go to RPA, Christ's and Grey Court once the North Kingston school opens. The council predicted about 30 more going to Orleans Park but that is limited to Richmond town.

6. It's difficult to predict whether schools will expand or new schools will open in neighbouring boroughs (e.g. on the Hounslow or Wandsworth side).

So the main thing the LA needs to do is to make sure its maintained schools (Christ's and St RR) remain popular and that it is prepared to open one more school for West Twickenham/Heathfield if needed, probaby around 2017. It looks like numbers will level off after that.

muminlondon2 Sat 20-Jul-13 08:48:20

There is an increase of about 100 Y6 primary pupils on the whole Twickenham (Middlesex) side comparing 2013 to 2014.

Turing House will be outside the coordinated admissions process for 2014. It's a shame it hasn't proposed reducing its first year intake because it's inevitable other schools in the area will be undersubscribed as some parents will be holding two offers. This year 46 places were allocated to St RR and Twickenham Academy.

I'm glad for the pupils at Hampton and Twickenham Academies that Turing House didn't open in 2013 before they had moved into new buildings or been inspected.

BayJay2 Sat 20-Jul-13 11:43:49

"We've traditionally had at least 20% of Y6 pupils going private or going to Tiffin (if not more)"

RISC did some analysis on that a while ago (see bottom of page 4), and showed that Richmond was sending an anomalously high number of children into the private sector at secondary transfer, compared to similarly prosperous boroughs.

It's reasonable to expect the proportions going private to decrease as:
- Quality and choice in local state secondaries improves across the board.
- Recession bites and/or mortgages consume an increasing proportion of household income. (All those people moving to Richmond specifically to access great schools aren't necessarily budgeting for going private!)
- The number of new private places being created doesn't grow at the same rate as the transfer population.

muminlondon2 Sat 20-Jul-13 13:43:54

I'd suggest the analysis is incomplete. It doesn't look the proportion choosing independent sector because they specifically want an academically selective school (e.g. 75% of the independent sector places in this borough are at highly selective schools: the non-selective ones have the advantage of small class sizes which can't be replicated with state sector funding, beyond the start-up years).

Those who begin in private prep schools are unlikely to want to switch to the state sector.

The analysis doesn't look at patterns of pupil retention to Y6 which seems to really have improved. That increases numbers overall - the link policy exacerbated the numbers leaving Richmond primaries before Y6 (many just moved areas) so its abolition, and outstanding Ofsted at Grey Court have all helped. Twickenham schools had a better record of retention under the link policy.

The analysis only works when all schools are equally popular or more attractive than the independent sector. It's a slow process - over 50 places were allocated at RPA this year despite much better Ofsted report. It competes with Christ's but not with St Paul's.

muminlondon2 Sat 20-Jul-13 13:52:02

'the number of new private places being created doesn't grow at the same rate as the transfer population'

I take your point, this is fixed. But equally, Richmond has one of the areas with the highest house price inflation in London. If this means more of those entering primary schools are renting than ever before, which I believe is the case, many from overseas, it also means more mobility and there are many cheaper boroughs for expanding families.

BayJay2 Sat 20-Jul-13 13:54:28

"Those who begin in private prep schools are unlikely to want to switch to the state sector."

There's certainly been some interest in Turing House from families in that category.

ChrisSquire2 Sat 20-Jul-13 14:16:42

The RTT has Haymarket shares plans for 250 new homes at Teddington Studios; details at Teddington Riverside

muminlondon2 Sat 20-Jul-13 14:36:52

The 'fixed capacity' of the independent sector isn't exactly true come to think of it. Radnor House still has room to grow and St Catherine's may see some competition from StRR or expanded numbers at Gumley.

If there are prep school pupils interested in Turing House, do you expect the proportion of disadvantaged pupils to still be reflective of the neighbouring state schools? I know you have a policy for spending the pupil premium, but the next government may change the Admission Code so that disadvantaged pupils are prioritised - Stephen Twigg did mention this.

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