Late primary admission - what happens??

(132 Posts)
tangledtights Sun 12-Feb-12 16:50:10

We're moving down to the Teddington/Hampton area in June. HOORAY!! Its taken a year but DH has finally got himself a job and we can make the move. Completely gutted we've missed the primary admission deadline in January though and starting to panic about whether or not my daughter who is 4 in June will manage to get a reception place for September. Does anyone know what the process is for a late application?

We're thinking that we will rent whatever house we can get that is closest to one of the schools that we like. I have seen a couple of houses up for rent that are 0.07 miles away from one of the potential schools in Hampton (Stanley). How do waiting lists work? If we live closest does that mean that we go up the waiting list even if someone else is already on the waiting list but lives a bit further away?

How do you think I'm best finding out which of the primary schools in the Teddington/Hampton/Hampton Wick area are likely to have more space? If I can find this out, then I suppose the best thing would be to try and get a property next door to the school to try and get her a space.

What happens if she doesn't get a space in one of the local schools? Does anyone have any experience of this? How far out would she have to go and is it always to a school that isn't rated as well?

Sorry lots of questions but panic setting in. confused


playgroup Fri 20-Apr-12 10:47:48

You can ask the council from 2 may that's when waiting list begins.
I think we should apply pressure on the council so they add an extra bulge class in community school

londoniana Fri 20-Apr-12 11:54:28

Collis had a bulge class in 2010/2011, right? Perhaps it is a good idea to pressure for a community bulge class... I'm all in.

HWick Infant already has a bulge class for 2012/2013 I believe, and so does Sacred Heart (catholic).

I fund this thread as well, apparently Sacred heart took on children who are not catholic because of the bulge class:

titchy Fri 20-Apr-12 12:02:49

Don't forget a bulge class already at the school means more siblings....

Dottymcdot Fri 20-Apr-12 12:12:40

Just wanted to say that Stanley is not going to become five form entry. Stanley is a fabulous school, with a head teacher who knows every single one of her pupil's names ( at infant level). Yes they are large, but they do it so very well, my child who was shy and very very nervous of large numbers of pupils absolutely thrives there. It is a great mix of people from a number of backgrounds, which in my view means that pupils will get a more balanced view of what the world is like. If Stanley is one of the least desirable schools in this area then those who consider it to be so have obviously not had a lot to do with the school.

In addition new school buildings are currently being put up to accommodate the growing numbers attending this school.

It is such a great school.

Good luck with getting a place.

LucyCamille Fri 20-Apr-12 16:11:00

From what I gather HWI has added an extra class this year (as was planned) and Stanley already has 4 classes which is a lot. I dont know what sort of class room space the schools have spare but I agree about bulge class.

It will be interesting when I can finally speak to the council and get some answers about how many applied for each and how many people there are like me who received 'no offer'. It might help to gage how likely we are to get offers at the different schools.

From what I gather they say this because they cannot place your child at a school within 5 miles! Thank goodness they didnt offer us a school 4.75miles away. What a nightmare.

The next two weeks is going to feel like an eternity... We should rally together against the council - surely they have to do something. There must be so may people in the same boat as me.

LucyCamille Fri 20-Apr-12 16:19:51

Yes thanks for that, I agree that Stanley is a great school and should not have a bulge class this year.

I am going to keep trying to get through to the council and get a bit more info, especially about numbers, if there are many 30+ pupils who have applied to the local schools and couldn't be placed at all, do you think that means that they have to form some sort of a bulge class? Will that only be decided right at the end of the summer when they feel confident in numbers?

Mind you if Hampton Wick have 20 who just dont turn up to the first day in September... how can anyone judge what the likley numbers will be at that time.

It just feels like a bit of a lottery - i.e. no control over the situation. Hopefully we will work something out.

Does anyone know how the council contact you if you get offered a late place? Should we be checking for letters or would they send an email too? Or even call you?

playgroup Fri 20-Apr-12 17:26:20

I know that 250 kids have no offer
I also think that sacred heart bulge class offers may have already been made as I know people who put it as 5th choice and got it
However if this is not the case and the school is undersubscribed all the more reason for putting the bulge in collis .i also went to a meeting where the head of education for Richmond said there was not a demand for catholic places in Teddington which is why hampton wick was expanded .
No offence to anyone going to sacred heart but it is about responding to what people want and that is community not faith places

Also regarding collis waiting list I don't think it will move sob sob as I know at least 8 people non sibling who got there kids in and there is No way they would give up their places

playgroup Fri 20-Apr-12 21:01:18

i have now set up a Facebook group to try to pressure the council to provide more community school places in teddington

itsraininghens Fri 20-Apr-12 22:38:37

Sympathy to those of you in this position, but just wanted to let you know that in my experience, waiting lists do move alot. Three years ago, we were on the waiting list for Collis, fairly near the top admittedly, but that year I seem to recall that families pretty far down the list (12th ish at May time) eventually got in for the September start, although some only finding out literally days before. The council will definitely be able to tell you where you are on the lists and you can accept a place, but still stay on a list for a preferred school.

Of course the movement of lists will vary year on year, but there are usually always some going private who will have applied for places just in case, and in my experience, there is always a big turnaround in Teddington - families moving in and out and that will include those taking the sibling places - people will apply even if they know they are planning to move: Three people in our reception class moved away due to job changes/going abroad etc by the end of the first year and that's not unusual. I know this is far from ideal and really hope it sorts out for you all.

Devora Fri 20-Apr-12 23:40:03

Great sympathy from me too; it is hugely stressful. But don't panic. As I think I wrote upthread, there is quite a lot of movement on the waiting lists over the summer, and yes you can stay on waiting lists even if you accept a place elsewhere. I was lucky enough to benefit from the Collis bulge year, but I have friends who didn't get a place last year but moved up the waiting list very quickly.

There is obviously a long-term problem here that can't be solved for ever for bunging on bulge classes, though sad

ludixon Sat 21-Apr-12 10:31:22

To those that have no school place this year, contact Children Without Choice on Facebook. Theirs is a well organised, pre existing campaign from last year.

Re waiting lists, you can waitlist for any school you like, and you can go up or down a list.

Stanley is a fab school. My son is in reception and is flourishing. Very active PTA - great way to meet people if you are new to area. Was named Primary Sports School of the Year this year. Also great academically with outstanding results at KS2 sats.

Waitlist turnover quite good. The Royal Roads much better value housing wise than nearer central Tedd.

Good luck!

Devora Sat 21-Apr-12 17:40:03

I agree that Stanley is a fabulous school. Strangely, it is sometimes talked about in Teddington as though it is the least good of the options, yet its results hold up against any of the others and it has the least affluent demographic. Which possibly makes it the best school of the lot. Certainly, in most parts of London it would be the school that parents were clawing over each other to get their child into. We are just blessed here with having NO bad schools (hence the house prices smile).

londoniana Sun 22-Apr-12 09:50:28

Devora, it might be simply 'Ofsted snobbery'.

I, for one, moved for Teddington because of the good schools and I'm happy if we get a place in any of them.

Stanley is just not as convenient for us because of distance but that might be offset by their wraparound care options so I'd still be happy if we get in.

Let's all hope a bulge class is created somewhere. I can't wait to be able to get on that wait list! smile

playgroup Mon 23-Apr-12 13:14:00

I would suggest all those parents who were offered sacred heart school but do not want to take up the place due to it being a catholic school to contact Mathew Paul the head of schools commissioning for the borough

He may then be forced to add additional places in community school as well

Hot of the press Hampton infant are taking bulge class

tangledtights Mon 23-Apr-12 13:22:10

Wow, just shocked at the tight catchments. Particularly Hampton Infants shock. Just out of interest though, if Hampton Infants are adding a bulge class, where will the extra children go? From my visit, the school looked a bit pushed for space already?

playgroup Mon 23-Apr-12 13:46:57

At hampton wick they put portable classroom in playground .thats is what is likley to happen.

LucyCamille Mon 23-Apr-12 14:08:44

Wow thanks for all the support / info! I will be checking out the facebook pages.

The council finally called me back this morning. Distance from Collis as measured by them is 1004m so quite a way off 658m! But we are further away on the others, so we are just going to hang on in there on all the lists.

They have said the lists will be released 8th May, and unfortunately those who have not sent their replies in by then must be chased by the council until they get answers. So presumably the lists as they are at 8th May will change quite a lot over the rest of May / June.

The problem with Collis being 56 siblings this year means that only 34 new family places were available and therefore I think we will be very far down the list.

I agree playgroup, I dont think there will be many of those 34 who'd give up their places and if you allow for those who you know that brings the figure down to 26!

I think with Hampton Wick permanant expansion this year, and Stanley already at 4 classes Collis is realistically the only community school where a bulge would make sense if there are still lots of families left out in the cold by September.

I have the same issue as londoniana, I think Stanley is a great school, but Collis is closer so makes more sense. If we get Stanley offer we definitely wont be turning it down, However I think we would definietly stay on the list for Collis and Hampton Wick just in case.

You never know. I did ask the council about possibility of a community bulge class, they said that there are 167 children in the borough with 'no offer'. They will be keeping a close eye on the situation as places are finalised over the coming months and it is something the powers that be would look at should it be the best option.

They also recommended thinking about Sacred Heart as it is very close to Collis, but again we are not religious so would this be a sensibile option for us?

londoniana Mon 23-Apr-12 15:29:38

@LucyCamille: thank you very much for the information! Hopefully everyone who reads this thread and has info will post updates from time to time.

Why was the difference in distance that significant, and not in your favor? How are they measuring it, and how did you measure it?

@Devora: I read that your child was admitted at Collis in a bulge year a couple of years ago, was that a portable classroom in the playground as well? I was under the impression that they had more classroom space?!

Sacred Heart is very close to us as well, but I'm not sure about a Catholic school, we're Christian but not really Church goers sad

LottieProsser Mon 23-Apr-12 20:09:59

Hi just read some of this. I am a Collis parent. Collis squeezed a bulge class in a couple of years ago (now year 1) but it is a very tight squeeze in their infant building to have 120 in each year and the new junior block has only 3 classrooms in each year grouping. They were told the last bulge class was a one off because St Mary's and St Peter's and Hampton Wick were both expanding to 3 forms of entry but clearly it is still not enough! There are now a couple of quite upmarket portacabins on the cricket pitch, intended partly to accommodate the bulge class when it gets to juniors, so I expect they could manage one more. But it's probably deemed to be Sacred Heart's turn as they haven't taken a bulge class for a long time.

Devora Mon 23-Apr-12 21:32:06

LucyCamille, I understand not wanting to use a faith school - and Sacred Heart is VERY RC - but in its defence it does seem a lovely little school. I know a couple of parents there and they are thrilled with it. Interestingly, it also seems more racially mixed than most of the Teddington schools, which I'm quite envious of.

These things are very personal, but if I were you it would definitely be an option worth considering very seriously. At least while you sit on the Collis waiting list.

londoniana, as Lottie says my dd was squeezed into the existing infants block but they do seem rather squashed up in there. I have to say Collis knows its stuff and I think they managed taking 120 children into Reception extremely well, but this desperate banging on bulge classes here and there every year is not ideal for anyone.

LucyCamille Tue 24-Apr-12 16:53:26

I think it doesnt help that there isn't some sort of link to a map which corresponds with the software which the council uses to determine distance. I belive other LEA's do offer this on their websites.

I found a website which would calculate the distance between two UK postcodes and gives two results one as the crow flies and the other using land transport, neither of which are accurate according to footpaths, or in regards to school gates. You are given the option to select either km or miles.

The measurement given to me by LBRuT has been explained as the walking distance in meters from the point of our address as determined by Ordinance Survey to the nearest School Gate, this 'walking distance' follows the centre of the road - i.e. where the cars are, and does not follow the pavement.

According to the two measurements I had gained from the aforementioned website, the distance I was given by LBRuT was somewhere in-between - closer to 'as the crow flies'. Though I am perplexed by the figure they gave for HWI though as the measurements I had were way less so I am going to investigate that one further.

I also think the Ofsted website does not help in the way that the schools are listed in miles as the crow flies but I guess this is a national website and all LEA's operate different measuring systems.

Sacred Heart is a lovely school and we will definietly be considering it as an option, even though we are not religious in any way. I think we just have to hang on in there and see what happens. Not ideal to say the least!

Thank you for the info on Collis, it helps to try and get a feel for what they - along with the other schools - are experiencing. It [having to take on bulge classes] seems a very unfair predicament for all the primaries to be put under, and shows a distinct lack of foresight by Richmond Council, which in turn does not bode well for future Secondary School applications! Especially considering the ongoing moves to remove the primary links, and the ever growing Teddington area population increase... hmm

LittleMrsMuppet Tue 24-Apr-12 18:37:23

LucyCamille - I'm not sure if you have any other, younger, children but one thing to be cautious of is that Sacred Heart do not currently give priority to siblings of non-Catholics over any Catholic applicant. It's something that anyone accepting a place there needs to be aware of, as otherwise they may well face going through this stress yet again in a couple of years' time.

londoniana Tue 24-Apr-12 19:56:03

LucyCamille, try the ordnance map, they have footpaths as well. Use the entire address, not only post codes.

Regarding distances, I believe it all depends which school gate is closer to you. For us, the Cromwell rd is the closest in the case of Collis (450m or less, it will be interesting to find out what LEA says). For Hampton wick and the other community schools I've no idea where the gates are located, I only know where main gates are.

It all feels like a lottery at this point. To top it up, solicitors are moving very slow and I'm now afraid we won't be able to complete on June 1 sad

Kass44 Tue 24-Apr-12 22:31:49

Hi, I have in a similar position to lots of you except multiplied by 2 I have twin boys and have been offered no place at any school in Teddington, I live near the lock and as far as I can see I am not in the catchment for any school. I have tried leaving messages but no-one calls me back I have however got my councillor to talk to admissions (he did manage to get through) and all they would confirm was that the boys would not be split up and I may get a place for them at Stanley...fine but too far to walk!

Devora Wed 25-Apr-12 00:13:49

Do you mean you're around Ferry Road or Twickenham Road, Kass? Are you really too far from Collis? I know people at the top of Kingston Road who didn't get a place at first last year, but did on the waiting list.

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