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Re nationality

(21 Posts)
Parofleurmapu Mon 14-Jul-08 12:22:33

Right ok im confused!!!

My LO was born here in Spain. I am British and my DP is dutch. We registerd her birth at the local civil office and have our "Libro de Familia" and her birth certificate.

Now is the baby spanish, british or dutch????
We are not married but DP is recognised as offical father on all documents

I phoned spain residency office and they say she is spanish as born in Spain

British websites say that she can be british through me but if she has children in future they wont be british.

Dutch websites say she cant be dutch til baby is 3 so unitl then she is not recognised as his!!! and then can apply for her to be his.

We havent registered her birth at either the britsh or dutch consulates but i have applied for a british passport for her

Please help!!!!

Brangelina Mon 14-Jul-08 13:02:32

I'm not sure, I'm in Italy and never bothered getting DD registered as it was so bl*°dy expensive and I have yet to get around to getting her passport done (she is nearly 3 now).

All docs I have for her are Italian atm. I don't have as complicated a situation as you in that DP is Italian, but I thought that children born in the eu to British parents (or at least a British mother) were automatically British and could apply for passports at any time using local birth certificates.

I didn't know about the passport thing ending with DD though. I wasn't born in the UK either and theoretically (although it still ahs to be tested) would have no problems getting DD a passport. I even asked at the consulate becasue I had doubts. Oh dear, you've got me worried.

SSSandy2 Mon 14-Jul-08 13:17:01

If you were born in the UK, your dd can get a British passport via you. If you were born outside the UK, you will have to apply to the home office see whether they will give her a British passport. It is then not automatic. This was my situation since I was born to British parents in Africa. So although I have a British passport, she could not automatically get one unless she was born in the UK (which I didn't know at the time.) Since we met whatever criteria they have our application to the home office went through and dd got a British passport anyway. Same applied to my sister whose dc have an Australian father and were born in Australia, they all have British passports too.

Why not just register the birth with the British embassy now? I don't know anything about the Dutch side of it but all you need is one EU passport in my opinion, doesn't matter all that much which. At least doesn't matter that much to me!

Brangelina Mon 14-Jul-08 13:22:52

That's interesting SSSandy. I'd always presumed it would be automatic. How does one apply to the Home Office then?

SSSandy2 Mon 14-Jul-08 13:25:41

I did it via the British consulate who were supporting my application they said. I think it is quite straight forward but expensive IIRC. I think they are just looking to see the link to the UK is not so distant as all that. I can't remember the details now (8 years ago) but you need to provide proof of so many years consecutive residency in the UK or something and it was all quite straight forward.

taipo Mon 14-Jul-08 15:27:01

We were in a similar situation. Dc were born in Hong Kong. I am British and was also born there and dh is German.

As I was not born in the UK the dc were not automatically entitled to British nationality and we had to provide a letter stating that my dad had been sent out to work in Hong Kong (the fact that HK was a British colony at the time was not enough) by the British government (he worked for the civil service at the time). Dc were granted British nationality but will not be able to pass it on to their children if they are born outside the UK.

They both also have German passports through dh which was more straight forward than getting the British ones.

They are not entitled to Chinese nationality!

Brangelina Mon 14-Jul-08 15:30:44

How interesting. Trouble it my dad wasn't "sent" anywhere for work, he too was born abroad (we were both more in an ex Brit colony) and my mum is naturalised British (was other European). The nearest relative born in the UK was my grandfather.

I'm going to have to have a chat with the consulate methinks.

prettybird Mon 14-Jul-08 15:36:34

My (Canadian) ex-SIL's parents had to fight for her to get her canadian passport. Her father was over hear as some sort of high headyun Canadian govrnemental type representative (Canadian Consul to Scotland or something like that) and she was born over here when he doing his "tour of duty".

Then som epoor wee Canadian jobsowrth wouldn't give her a passport to allow her to go back to Canada (age 2 or 3!) on the bais that she hadn't been born in Canada.

I've seen a copy of the letter her father wrote at the time: it is legendary. grin Her dad takes about "calling your man xxxx off" and makes great play of the fact that he was wroking in the service of his gloriouos country and that this is the reward he gets...a stateless child.

She got her passport!

(and many years later, cam eback to Scoltand and ended up marrying a Scot!)

SSSandy2 Mon 14-Jul-08 19:34:08

well this is so long ago now brang, can't remember all the details but I called this very nice woman at the consulate and she explained like taipo said, if your dp had been working for the British govt overseas (DCs, army, civil service) and that's why you were born overseas, your dc's (2nd generation born overseas) application would go through. Dad was an engineer and that one didn't apply to us; so the other route we had to go down was this proving so many years consecutive residency in the UK. I think they have some leeway too.

It's not such a big deal IIRC, it's just if you are expecting it to be automatic, it can be quite a shock.

SSSandy2 Mon 14-Jul-08 19:34:43

that's a nice story prettybird, fighting for Canadian nationality and then moving to Scotland

Brangelina Mon 14-Jul-08 20:10:21

It has been a shock, I'd always taken it for granted. I'm going to ring up the consulate tomorrow but I now have a sense of foreboding insofar as DD would be 3rd generation born abroad. Oddly enough there is absolutely no mention of this on the website, so I'd have posted the application off to Rome only to get a cold shower a couple of weeks later.

What kind of proof of residence did you have to produce? Would it be something like a level and degree certificates, tax records (not that I have any but surely they can trace)?

SSSandy2 Mon 14-Jul-08 21:59:38

don't want to give you any wrong info brange, so it would be best to call and check with them. May have changed a bit in the last 8 years. I can't remember how many years they needed but I think they said it could be years spent at school, studying or working.

SqueakyPop Mon 14-Jul-08 22:03:39

Don't know about Spanish and Dutch, but your DD is a British Citizen by Descent. This means that she can't necessarily pass on British Citizenship to any foreign-born children she has (although she will be able to if she lives in the UK as a child for a minimum period of time).

MrsSchadenfreude Tue 15-Jul-08 22:20:26

Ssssandy is right. Brangelina, if your mother naturalised as a British Citizen before you were born, and you were born after 1.1.83, you could claim British Citizenship, by descent through her - as she naturalised, she is a British Citizen Other Than By Descent and is able to pass on her British nationality to you.

Dutch notoriously difficult on nationality IMO.

olyoly Wed 16-Jul-08 15:19:22

DH is British but born in Australia. Our children were born in the US. Now they can't get either UK or Aussie passports without living in the country for a specified period of time. For now, dc are only American.

SqueakyPop Wed 16-Jul-08 15:23:18

That's right, oly. Most countries have a way of restriction the passing on of citizenships through the generations to people who have no ties to the country. The UK does this by the descent/otherwise than by descent distinction; the US does it by stipulating that the parent has to have lived for 7 years in the US.

slim22 Wed 16-Jul-08 18:31:00

My DD born O'seas, she got it but if I understand correctly her kds wont necessarily unless she has lived in UK for a number of years.
Does anyone know how many to qualify?

SqueakyPop Thu 17-Jul-08 14:09:50

I think it is 3 years.

SqueakyPop Thu 17-Jul-08 14:13:18

From Wikipedia:

"Where the parent is a British citizen by descent additional requirements apply. In the most common scenario, the parent is normally expected to have lived in the UK for three years and apply for the child to be registered as a British citizen within 12 months of the birth. "

IOW, the child is not a British citizen at birth but has to be naturalised (ie registered) within a year of birth.

IIRC, such a child would also be a British citizen by descent (which is unusual for registrations, but logical in the circumstances).

DeeInMalaysia Fri 18-Jul-08 10:52:03

This is all really confusing!

Same for me. My parents are from northern ireland and have Irish nationality. I was then born in Amsterdam and my parents didn't know they were staying so they got me an irish passport and nationality.
Then I moved to Scotland and when my son was born to a scottish dad we needed to get him a passport.
I was told that any child born after april 2003 automatically gets the nationality of the mother according to the 'The Hague' convention. (something to do with parents kidnapping their kids)
So he had Irish nationality, but no citizenship so couldn't get an Irish passport. Couldn't get a british one because I'm not British and it basically took a long time to finally get him an irish passport. Funny enough when my second son was born last year there was no trouble getting him a british passport even though the situation hasn't changed.
Weird or what??

SqueakyPop Fri 18-Jul-08 11:34:18

If your parents were from Northern Ireland then they are British, and you are British by descent. It doesn't matter than none of you has held a British passport. Britain does not care about claims to other citizenships - these have no bearings on whether a person is a British citizen.

Your son will be British because he was born in the UK to settled parents (both of whom are British citizens).

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