Moving to North Sydney - Schools and suburbs advice..

[greenorchid]

We have just got our visas through so it’s all go at last on moving to Sydney!!

My partner has a new position at Macquarie university and so we are relocating the whole family over. We have two primary school age children 6 and 9 years and a 3 year old. They currently attend an outstanding rural primary school and are both very academic and doing well all round at school. So we’re starting our research on where to live in North Sydney.

The ideal suburb would be not too far a commute for my partner to the university, a family orientated suburb which has a nice, friendly feel, excellent primary school, housing not too expensive earning around the $250 mark so houses to rent and buy affordable within that range, and I know it’s pricey in Sydney!! The School I guess is our priority. As they get older would be nice to have a more spacious house so that will probably effect where we choose to live too.
We’ve been suggested North of the university near the train line but wonder if it would feel too remote and far from the beaches. On the other hand don’t want to battle the traffic to work.

Also how do we go about applying to the schools. We are on a temporary visa but intending to stay if we like it! My husband is going over in a few months to visit so he’s planning to look around schools then.

Just starting the research into suburbs and schools so any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Or any general tips on the big move too!!

[KingIrving]

Stay East or North of Macquarie university, avoid Eastwood, Ryde, Epping, Chatswood.
Pymble, Gordon, Killara, Lindfield are all nice suburbs but not sure I would say you have a community feeling.
Honestly not even in my small suburb on the Northern Beaches near the beaches do you have a community feeling. The way the suburbs are built, you don't really have a centre, only a strip of shops, with a library if you are lucky and then houses houses and houses.
Manly would be the only one to have a community vibe, probably because of the high European presence, but way to far to commute and can become crazy busy in hot days.

A weekly rent on the northern beaches and Gordon , Killara, will be at $1000 weekly for something nice. Maybe a bit less in Turramurra , but you are really far from the beaches. And Sydney.

We decided to live near the beaches.

ON a temporary visa, you have to pay school in NSW. When we arrived it was 5000$ per year and child. Don;t go crazy with catchment because on a temporary visa, it is up to the school to accept you or not, even if you live in front of it. All the schools in Pymble, Killara area are excellent schools and every school offers extensions for academic students. There are special classes called OC (opportunity classes ) and selective high school but you can't enrol in them on a temp visa.
To apply, you just fill the form , pay the $5000 and then it is done. Visit the schools and see which feelings you have.
We avoided the religious schools and the single sex ones. School ranking are based on a test called naplan, but don't believe it reflects effectively the teaching. The school at the top tend to get rid of students with poor results kicking them out of school or advising them to stay home during the test week. We arrived from a non English speaking country and background and could have skipped the test, but school insisted it was good for the kids to have the test and see how it works so it would be easier for them the next time they had to sit it. School didn't care that my sons' results would maybe give the school a lesser score.

Ask about overcrowding. Some schools had to sacrifice play ground space for demountable classrooms and in some, they even have to take turns to have recess and toilet (chatswood) .

I am not sure to understand earning around the $250 mark so houses to rent and buy affordable within that range, do you mean earning $250K ? This would allow you to be comfortable .
You also need to consider private health insurance, compulsory on a temp visa, crazy cost of having a car with double insurance (CTP + your own insurance) .
When looking for houses, ask about heating. North sydney can be as cold as 4 degrees in Winter in the morning and having a house with no heating is tough. I hate being cold.

[CatRen27]

I'd agree with pp about the lack of community feel on the north shore line. We're in Mosman which is pretty privileged but so beautiful and has a lovely community feel. I guess if you don't need to be close to the city you'd still be paying that premium so might not be worth it. If it wasn't for the extended city commute we were looking at manly, clontarf, seaforth and northern beaches as its lovely up there and not too bad getting to Macquarie way.

I guess you'll always have a community if you have school aged kids - so maybe its not as big a deal. Roseville is a bit of an older population - lots of retired people - so maybe Lindfield, pymble or Gordon.

$250k should put you in good stead though. Expect to pay at least $1000 a week on rent, medical costs are higher than uk ($60-90 per gp visit and only $37 back from Medicare), dental costs can be high on top of private health cover, and actual health cover is for us $200 a month per adult. So we are earning more here than uk but feel like we're no more well off with all of these outgoings.

Childcare support (for your 3yo) in the form of a universal rebate wont apply to you at that income from June when the rules change, and then you'll be looking at $150 a day at a daycare centre (nursery).

Keep us posted!

[losingmymindiam]

Lane Cove, LC North/West, and Chatswood West are nice, more of a community than say Killara but the community you get from the school if it is a friendly one (some are a bit snobby) - still expensive if you want space though. Rent would prob be about $1000 per WEEK for somewhere with space. The further north you go, the more space you get, not necessarily cheaper IYSWIM.

Second what PP says about heating. Make sure you have heating as the houses without are FREEZING in winter.

Most schools on north shore are good. It may have changed but we were on a 457 visa and living in catchment and they had to take children, they will take out of catchment if space. You have to pay fees if you aren't a permanent resident/Aussie citizen even for the public (state) schools.

[CatRen27]

Oh and applying for schools - are you looking at public/government or private? Can't help you on the private side but once you find somewhere to live, the department of education has a site to find your catchment school. I think generally you only have one catchment school and they're required to take your kids so its not like uk in terms of selecting several and getting allocated one. There are several primary schools near me but I can only apply to one for my dd. You just need to apply as soon as you have an arrival date.

I think for private schools it's all about getting in early so start looking now!

[chatwoo]

I live in Chatswood (East / Willougby side) and really like it - although it has many detractors! We don't have children so can't really comment on schools or community stuff.

We live near a bus stop and there's regular services into the city and to North Sydney. And of course the trains run north, south and also West-ish to Mac Uni, Epping etc. Although the Epping line will be closing in September for the construction work starting on the new metro line. So buses in that direction only, if people are not driving.

Chatswood pretty much has all the shops needed - with no trips required into the city or other suburbs.

Lots of food choices as well of course.

We live on a busy road, but a lot of the side/back streets further from the road, are lovely and quiet. We pay in the $800s pw for a 2-bed apartment, which is slightly over the odds, but it's a good size, brand new when we moved in, nice kitchen, bathrooms etc.

One of my BILs lives in West Chatswood, on the edge of Lane Cove, not so convenient but a lot more leafy and easy access to the Pacific Highway / M2. Another BIL lives in Wollstonecraft. He mostly drives everywhere but is also within walking distance of St Leonards and Wollstonecraft train stations.

[KingIrving]

I agree Willoughby is nice and has a lovely park.

[greenorchid]

Thanks for all the advice!! Really helpful! And yes I meant earning $250k.

I've spent the weekend looking at League tables, school websites and maps trying to get a feel of where the good schools are in relation to the areas you've all mentioned!

We looking for public primary schools. My son will be going into Year 5 when he starts in January so i'm also mindful that we need to also research secondary schools as he'll probably have to apply next year and we need to live within a commutable distance or catchment if a public school.

Also we'd need to be on a permanent visa by the time it comes to apply if we wanted a selective public school, could be tight with timings!
If anyone can recommend great secondary schools private and public within these areas that would be really helpful!

I've read quite a bit about Lane Cove being a lovely leafy area, with young families and great schools. Is this within reasonable commuting distance to Macquarie University? Not on the train line, and wondering which part of it is best to look at for commuting and the best school within Lane Cove. We were thinking it would be around $1000 a week for a rental. We'd be looking at 4 bedroom rentals with 3 children. How competitive is the rental market in this area? Or any area.

We'd be moving into temporary rental when we first move out not sure how that's going to work out, as it's part of the relocation package and we've not got that far yet. Hoping we can get a emporary rental within a good area as we will be looking at schools as soon as we get out there!
Hmm, think we need an address in catchment to apply to the one we want though! Can we apply without an address?

Also any thoughts as to whether Mosman, Cammeray, Northbridge areas would be too far to be a reasonable commute to the university. They seem like lovely areas with great schools but may be too far for us? We have two cars here, but wondering whether we can afford that or just go one car. Hubby likes to commute by public transport anyway.

We will look into Gordan, Pymble, Lindfield and Killara areas too. Though community feel, being near enough to get to the northern beaches and Sydney centre are important to us. Roseville primary looks like a great primary school too.

Artarmon public school is number 2 in the league tables and supposed to be good at providing extensions for brighter kids, my two school aged kids are particularly excelling in maths. Anyone know that area? Or the school?

Also, another consideration is that they are currently in a rural school in Devon with around 200 kids and I know some of these schools are huge in numbers. So ideally, wouldn't want one too big, as it will be such a change for them! And a big enough change moving from a small village in Devon to a big city!! ;-)

Do most schools allow visitors, if we were to email and arrange a visit before we arrive? Or do they only have fixed tours?

Can't believe the cost of childcare for my 3 year old! Wow!! I've heard a lot of people start their kids at school later than the UK. I would be thinking of starting her in 2020 as she turn 5 years in March of that year, but don't want her to start early if she will be the youngest if kids generally start later. Is their a difference between paid childcare in a nursery and in a pre-school that feeds into a school like there is in the UK. I would be looking to start her in the pre-school equivalent once we have the right school. And hoping that might be less expensive like in the UK!

So much to think about!! Hubs is going out there soon for 3 weeks to start his job and look at areas and schools when he can. Wish I could go with him!! Ha. I did live there for a year when I was at University but that was a long time ago!! And I lived in Eastern suburbs, so didn't really get to know Northern Sydney.

Thanks ladies. Would love to know how long you've been out there if you've relocated and how you've found it!

[KingIrving]

Traffic in Sydney is crazy, and I say this as an expat who has lived in big European cities. Your husband should try getting to work by car before deciding on a suburb, spending maybe some time in different suburbs.

I like Crows Nest better than Cammeray, it has a nice couple of streets with restaurants , cafe and even a bookshop (very very rare here)

You need to be aware that most high schools have anyway a GAT (gift and talented) program and classes with extension work. The atmosphere in the selective schools is not for everyone as they go crazy about personal ranking, obsessing about grades and huge stress, some having three hours of tutoring a day to keep up with the crowd, because you rally need to be aware of the high level of tutoring going on in selective schools and classes especially within the Asian community. One of son's best friend had daily math classes from 4-7 pm and from9-13 on Saturday. Since he was in y1
James Ruse selective high school is nr 1 in NSW and has a 97% Asian enrolment. Do these kids come first because of great teachers. no. Because they have constant tutoring since early primary years.

School ranking reflects the ability of the student attending the school not the ability of the teachers. My son's friend school results had nothing to do with the teacher he and my son had at school. At the same time, he would spend his time quizzing ME about my mathematical knowledge and his whole world revolved about comparing himself with others. Quite sad actually.

To apply for selective high school you need to pass a test in March of his Year 6.

One or two cars will also depend where you live as on street parking is not free in many of the lower shore of the Northern suburbs. Being without a car in the northern beaches is a suicide as public transport is crap.

The Northern Beaches and the Killare area are privileged areas and there all school are good.

[chatwoo]

Feel free to PM if you have any suburb / lifestyle type questions, but I can't help with schools (or even how schooling works!).

[losingmymindiam]

My son went to Cammeray for a while, we lived in Crows Nest. Lovely area but I found it quite cliquey and the school. There is a habit of holding children back so they don't start school until they are turning 6. This makes it tricky if you try and keep in line with UK. A four year old starting school is allowed but rare.

We then moved to Chatswood West. Lovely leafy area much closer to University but don't know what commute would be like. We did commute to school from Chatswood West to Cammeray for a bit (once you are in you can stay and yes you do need an address before you can enrol, but you can visit most) and it took about 45 mins. My son then went to Mowbray Public School which was lovely. I think it is much bigger than it was though. We managed with no car for a while then one bit my husband was commuting into CBD so used public transport.

Nursery is expensive as the 'public' ones (google Kindergarten Union) still cost and are very over subscribed. Private ones do educational stuff for pre school aged kids though, but are a bit hit and miss. There are Montessori ones.

I suggest if your husband is going over that he tests out commutes before you are committed to a rental. Could he also find out where his colleagues live?

[RedDwarves]

I went to Macquarie University.

Personally, the suburbs on the North Shore I like most are Wahroonga (beautiful, tree lined streets and parks, but very expensive to rent/buy, easily commutable to MQU), Gordon, Killara (both, again, beautiful and easily commutable), Roseville, North Sydney itself, Milson's Point. But, I would advise sticking to that Wahroonga-Roseville region (avoid Chatswood - obscenely busy) for commutability and family friendliness. The lower North Shore, around Mosman etc. is beautiful but not as close.

Most, if not all, of the public primary schools on the North Shore are great. I cannot speak to them personally, as I went to Pymble Ladies' College for primary, but I don't think I'd have been negatively impacted by the public schools in the area. I have lots of friends who went to Wahroonga, Roseville, Pymble Public Schools, and all of them have positive things to say and have gone on to do very well.

Lots of very good high schools on the North Shore as well. As a PP mentioned, Jame Ruse has topped the list for more years than I could begin to count, and it is a selective public school. Many of the schools in Sydney are selective, meaning that an entrance exam must be sat, a pass grade obtained, and a continued academic grade upheld throughout the duration of their schooling. Some of these are Hornsby Girls' High School, Killara High School, Chatswood High School, North Sydney Boys/North Sydney Girls, Ryde Secondary (same suburb as Macquarie Uni), and others. As a PP said, also, be aware that the student populations of these schools tend to be predominantly Asian and with that comes a different culture and different set of expectations.

I changed from PLC to Barker College in Hornsby/Wahroonga in Year 10. Barker was a much better fit for me, but it is a very big school and it is very expensive.

I think the cultures near the beaches and the culture on the North Shore is quite different. The North Shore is stereotypically home to the doctors and lawyers, and therefore it can be difficult to form friendships if you're new to the area as the accepted culture is that you work the long hours in the city, have your children in competitive selective or private schools etc. Conversely, the beaches are a bit more relaxed and a bit more stereotypically "Australian". I am not a beach person, so have no desire to ever live in that sort of culture, but that is no surprise as my family have lived on the North Shore since they arrived in Australia in the 1820s!

On the whole, the North Shore is a great part of Sydney with some beautiful suburbs, big (often "old" by Australian standards) houses, good schools, and is commutable to the CBD, but it is busy, and it is very expensive. I have moved entirely away from Sydney for these two reasons, and have no intention of going back. Don't underestimate the traffic in those areas of Sydney, and ensure you live somewhere with public transport links to all of the areas you need (i.e. not Lane Cove), because you'll soon get fed up of sitting in traffic day in and day out.