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Passport for British nationals born overseas

(40 Posts)
smellsofelderberries Sat 04-Mar-17 06:21:59

I'm sure someone here will have been through this before! DD is 4 months old, we live in Australia and she was born here. I am Australian and have British citizenship by descent, DH is British. We will move back to England at some point in the next several years and DH wants DD to have full British citizenship (not just by descent). Wouldn't affect her but could affect her DC, should she have any. She will also hold an Australian passport.

It's really hard to find information about how to do this. From what we can work out, she needs to live in the UK for 3 years, then can apply for a full British passport. For those three years she would live in the UK on her Australian passport with a 'right to abode' stamp. I want to believe that she would have the right to live there on an Australian passport with two British parents but I know the laws of logic don't exactly go hand in hand with things like dual citizenship and being born abroad. (I don't really care tbh but DH has his heart set on it so 🤷🏻‍♀️)

Anyone done similarly?

VintagePerfumista Sat 04-Mar-17 06:26:02

If your DH has full British (otherwise than by descent) citizenship then your daughter is already British by descent like you.

So, all you need to do is apply for a ppt for her.

If she is British by descent then she is British by descent. You can't upgrade unfortunately! (My dd is B-d and I used to work in the Nationality office in the UK)

cannotseeanend Sat 04-Mar-17 23:08:59

VintagePerfumista is spot on 100% correct, the 3 years thingy is for non Brit cits, read it carefully. Yes it's not easy for someone not in Nationality to comprehend. They don't even train immigration officers in the finer points to British nationality, as it is so complicated.

cannotseeanend Sat 04-Mar-17 23:10:55

She can give birth to her children in the UK if she wants so they can become British other than by descent!

RitaConnors Sat 04-Mar-17 23:20:02

She can have a British passport as her father is British but she is and always will be British by descent.

Who knows what the law will be if your now four month old daughter has children.

HearTheThunderRoar Sun 05-Mar-17 10:34:37

She doesn't need to live in England for 3 years to be entitled to British citizenship/passport, she already has it. Just so long as your DH can prove England is his birth place.

We've been in exactly the same position, my DD has British citizenship through my English DH. I am a Kiwi and DD was born and raised in New Zealand (she hasn't even been to England) we only applied for DD's British passport when DD was 15 and had no problems whatsoever.

Your DD's child won't be entitled to citizenship but she will be able to apply for the UK ancestry visa as she will have one grandparent born in the UK (i.e your DH) this visa allows the child to work in the UK for at least 5 years (which can be extended). I would be entitled to that as all my grandparents were born in England/Scotland.

www.gov.uk/ancestry-visa/overview

BananaInPyjama Tue 07-Mar-17 02:46:47

the British by descent makes sense. My kids are by descent, and hold a British passport by virtue of e being born in UK to Brits.
If their kids are born in UK, they will be Brits (born in Britain to a Brit) but if they are born overseas, logic assumes family ties with UK are minimal/lost.

So just by having (grand) kids born in UK, the passport could continue.

MangosteenSoda Wed 08-Mar-17 09:57:14

Just here to agree with PPs. There's no other category of citizenship/passport your dd can apply for. Her children can be British if she has them with a person who is British by birth, or if they are born in the UK.

MangosteenSoda Wed 08-Mar-17 09:59:58

Perhaps I should say 'be automatically entitled to a British passport' as there could be some cases which are approved based on particular circumstances, but the general rule is as above.

lemonapple Sat 11-Mar-17 07:39:54

PARTICULAR CARE has to be taken to note cases where a minor does not have an entitlement under s.3(5), but would have such an entitlement if the family were to live in the UK or a qualifying territory (if appropriate) for 3 years. If we were to register such a minor under s.3(1), this would give British citizenship by descent. Registration under s.3(5) gives British citizenship otherwise than by descent and it might therefore be more advantageous for the family to wait until the minor met the requirements of s.3(5). If the family is in the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory, or is proposing to return to the UK or a qualifying territory to live, we should advise that it might be preferable not to proceed with an application under s.3(1), but to wait until the requirements of s.3(5) are met.

lemonapple Sat 11-Mar-17 07:40:13

from Gov website

lemonapple Sat 11-Mar-17 07:41:44

Doesn't this contradict what VintagePerfumista shared earlier ?

PotteringAlong Sat 11-Mar-17 07:45:44

DH wants DD to have full British citizenship

He can want it all he likes, but as she was not born in the UK she will be British by descent. If she wants her children to be British citizens she will need to live and have them in the uk.

VintagePerfumista Sat 11-Mar-17 08:10:31

No, 3(5)s (and 3(1)s are for children with no other entitlement to B/ship.

There are no longer very many 3(1)s as it is discretionary and was mainly to account for British born mothers who earlier could not pass on their citizenship. The 1981 Act (brought into force in 1983) included this provision as mothers had been previously discriminated against re citizenship law. Children born before 1/1/83 to BC mothers were registered as 3(1)s. There are many other discretionary reasons why a 3(1) would be granted, but the OP's child wouldn't be considered for the reasons stated before. She is already British. (by descent)

My own daughter's children for example will not be BCs unless she gives birth there. Her children will have an entitlement under 3(5) if she fulfills the residence rules at some point.

lemonapple Sat 11-Mar-17 09:27:34

So if I am British otherwise than by descent then my daughter born overseas who is British by descent can never upgrade this to "British otherwise than by descent" even if she lives 3 years in Britain say as a child? She actually has to give birth in Britian for her child to be British otherwise than by consent ? That is, my grandchildren can never have a British passport unless they are born there irrespective of very strong links and all the generations living alot in Britain over the years ? It seems to favour those who have no British ancestry and can use 3(5)?

VintagePerfumista Sat 11-Mar-17 10:40:08

No, you need British ancestry for 3(5) (and 3(2))

You need to have been born to a BC-D.

This explains it quite succinctly without ploughing through the act.

britishexpats.com/wiki/British_Citizenship_by_Descent

But again, it's for children who were not automatically British at birth because they were born to BC-Ds. Not a BC-D like the OP's child.

lemonapple Sat 11-Mar-17 11:19:09

Thank you Vintage and thank you Mumsnet !

Scotinoz Sat 11-Mar-17 20:33:58

Late into the game, but my children were born in Australia and I'm British. They were entitled to a British passport because Im British. I just filled in the form and produced my UK passport and birth certificate. It only requires one patent to apply. It was really easy. I did the applications at the passport office in the UK - passports arrived the next day and the appointment took 10minutes 😀

If you do come back to the UK though - make sure your little one has their UK passport or the correct visa in their Australian passport. We cocked up and had a real drama at immigration...learn from my mistake!

smellsofelderberries Tue 14-Mar-17 05:24:35

Thank you so much everyone! As I suspected. I don't really care tbh but DH had his heart set on it. I don't see the big deal, but there you go. I think if he was that set on it he probably should have voiced his concerns before we moved to Australia when I was 29 weeks pregnant wink

hellokittymania Tue 14-Mar-17 05:28:59

I haven't read the whole thread but for those who say you automatically are a British citizen if you are born in the UK , does this apply if both of your parents are foreigners ?

VintagePerfumista Tue 14-Mar-17 10:24:08

No. One or both parents have to be settled.

cannotseeanend Tue 14-Mar-17 16:00:29

Did someone say you are automatically British if born in the UK? Don't recall reading that here at all.

Want2bSupermum Wed 15-Mar-17 18:58:29

OP - I know where your DH is coming from. I was born in Canada to a British parent and qualified for citizenship via descent. My family moved back to the UK when I was under 10 and I lived there for 15 years, own property and have family there (that I visit). I have had my kids here in the US and they don't qualify for British Citizenship. Ironically, if my family had moved to the UK, like my Dads colleague did, and qualified for citizenship via naturalization, my kids would qualify for British citizenship.

Moral of the story is that UK immigration is a sorry disaster and for as long as they have these rules they will have expats coming back to the UK to give birth.

VintagePerfumista Wed 15-Mar-17 20:22:09

Couldn't you have/can't you register your children under s 3(2) Want2be?

Want2bSupermum Wed 15-Mar-17 22:28:18

Nope. Not possible. We tried every angle.

It's absolutely crazy that if we moved back to the U.K. my kids would have to be naturalized. The rules are totally stupid IMO.

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