Emigrating to New Zealand - partner who is Kiwi

[andantecantabile]

Hi everyone. I've read the MN boards for quite some time but this is my first post. I'm not actually a mum (hope that's ok!) although one day I hope to be. I wanted to post as this seems like such an amazing resource for sharing experiences and gaining advice.

My DP is from New Zealand, and has lived in the UK for 5 years. I am British. We have been together for nearly two years; he is 30 and I am 28. He makes me so happy and I know he is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with. We have been talking about the future for a little while, although more so recently. We rent currently as part of a house share, but are saving for a house deposit and would like to live just the two of us, either in a rented property, or our own house, when our current tenancy runs out.

However, I know deep down that DP would like to return to New Zealand in the future, and has expressed that us buying a house here would be a difficult step for him, as in a sense he is committing to living here for the long term. In an ideal world, he would like to return to live in New Zealand, and settle down there to raise a family. We have looked at property online in both London (where we currently live) and New Zealand (specifically Wellington) and what you can get for your money in NZ compared to here is just ridiculous. The houses in NZ look just beautiful, huge gardens, so much space. Total contrast to the cramped one bed flats with a share of communal garden for £250K...

I haven't yet been to New Zealand, but we are going at Christmas. I know that he is very keen for me to like it there, and from what I've seen and heard, it does look an incredible place to live. I know that if we were to have children, it would be a great place for them to grow up. In terms of employment, my DP would most likely be able to find a job quickly. I would be able to build up my work more gradually, as I'm self-employed.

However, it's just....... so far away! I wouldn't be able to see my family regularly, and if we have children, it pains me that my parents wouldn't be able to see our children grow up, except on Skype. (So as not to drip feed, my Dad would be unable to make the flight to NZ for health reasons, so the only times we would be able to see my family are if we flew back to the UK).

I've done some research into what life would be like over there: as I understand it, the exchange rate is quite poor, so any deposit we have here wouldn't be worth the same over there. I know that things like groceries are so expensive too, in comparison.

For what it's worth, DP hasn't put any pressure on me in terms of deciding where to live. And in any case, I can't make any decisions until I've at least been to visit NZ.

What I'm asking really, is for you to share any relevant experiences you might have that could help me organise my thoughts! Especially the logistics of visiting family on the other side of the world, and maintaining a relationship. I'm sorry for the essay. I've watched so many episodes of 'Wanted Down Under!' and it would be great to hear from others first hand. Thank you

[ImperialBlether]

I think I wouldn't have children with someone while living there simply because if the relationship broke down, I'd have to continue to live there or leave without the children.

[4seasonsin1day]

Here is my situation. We moved to NZ 3 years ago, we are both from the UK and don't have any family here. Whilst you will read many posts from people who absolutely love it, I have to say that whilst we have enjoyed our time here, we won't be staying long term.

Housing - the houses may look nice however they are actually mostly just sheds - built from wood with no insulation and heating. In the winter they are cold and damp - we're talking mould growing on the walls damp, clothes going mouldy in cupboards damp. We are in Auckland and house prices are absolutely ridiculous for what you get and the sections are tiny as most houses have been subdivided.

Cost of Living - very high. I estimate food to be about a third more expensive, much less choice and poorer quality.

Family - if you do decide to come here I would insist on going home at least once a year. It is very expensive to fly back to the UK from here (much more than the other way around). Family support when your children are young, imo, is really important. Please bear in mind that if you come here with a child or have a baby here you will not be able to leave the country without your partners permission.

To anyone coming here with a partner who is the main breadwinner I would say - think about yourself. What are you going to be giving up? When you leave your old life, you leave behind all those friends that you have history with, you miss all the family celebrations. Speaking over Skype just isn't the same.

I would say to you that I find New Zealand quite a boring place to live. The country is absolutely beautiful however there isn't any variety, it's beach or beach. Auckland has 2 museums, there is very little history here, it's hard to explain but there isn't a feeling of community and oneness of the population. I find people very parochial.

[grumbleina]

I'm in your DH's position, we live in the UK and there is a long running casual discussion of if/when regarding New Zealand.

It's incredibly difficult being away from family, and only becomes more so. However, it is worth always keeping in mind that unless you move to a third location with neither family around, one of you is always going to suffer on that front, and there is really no solution that works for everyone. But you can mitigate it. I prefer trips home to having family come to see me, so mostly we do that. Sometimes DH comes with me, sometimes he doesn't. I go for quite long periods, quite regularly - anything from 1-3 months, most years. Financially and jobwise, I think this is quite an important thing to factor in, it took me years to get used to saving towards that as a necessary yearly expense.

You will get a lot more house for your money in Wellington than in Auckland. The pp was not wrong about NZ houses being built very differently to UK ones. They are less weatherproof, but there are also benefits - they're built more with the outdoors in mind, and the winters are nowhere near as harsh. A dehumidifer is invaluable. If you get to the house buying stage, please do research both leasehold properties and the 'leaky homes' issue. Leasehold works differently in NZ, and the 'leaky homes' thing is a national shame, and I expect both have caught out expats. Though your DH will probably already be familiar with both.

Groceries, yes, expensive. But again, it really needs emphasising that New Zealand is DIFFERENT. It is not just england with beaches. The way you eat, entertain, everything is different. So eg with food - fruit and veg are good quality and not expensive, and people eat a lot of them. Cheese, chocolate, restaurants... expensive. It hasn't had the same sort of 'budget junk food' thing that the UK has, and as a result things we think should be cheap, aren't, and vice versa. 'Fast fashion' hasn't really happened so clothes are expensive, and there is a ridiculous cachet to foreign brands, which you will find hilarious. There are a lot of great new zealand designers though.

If you like branded (ie big name artists) high culture you will have a tough time as there simply isn't the flow of events that we're used to here. There is a local scene and the occasional big thing, but it's nothing like what you get in even the smaller cities of the UK. Then again, if you like the outdoors and sports, you are going to be in heaven.

It's a healthier and imo more joyful lifestyle. People are more relaxed. The weather is better. But it's also got all the problems of being remote - it is a bit 'closed' and new ideas take time to filter through. But it's also wonderful - it's DIY and there is still a bit of a sense that it's all a work in progress, that major changes in the way the country functions are possible. Then again, that's lessened in recent years..

You'll know, when you go there. If you don't like it, then that's going to be hard, but that's the way it is. If you do, maybe do a trial run?

Also, it sounds paranoid but yes echoing the other poster - if you have children there, be very very VERY sure that you're having them with someone who will work with you on custody arrangements if it goes south, as without their support you won't be permitted to take the kids out of the country.

[4seasonsin1day]

That's a great post Grumble, much more balanced than mine! One thing I forgot to mention is to think about what you would do if you wanted to come back. It sounds ridiculous however DH and I didn't think about what would happen if we wanted to come back. We now have the issue of employers being nervous of employing someone who is overseas without first meeting them face to face. We have the issue of schools - finding them is fine, getting children in is another matter. Please please think about your career and how it will look on your CV. I have heard many people say that NZ is very good at not recognising other qualifications and making people re train even though they are highly qualified.

I don't want to get into a tit for tat but I must disagree re food. Just look at the supermarkets websites (there are only 2 companies running supermarkets over here). For months we have had 2 choice of apple variety due to a shortage, cucumbers will soon go up to about $5-$6 (£3)as it will be winter. This sounds petty but food is expensive and I don't think the quality is better.

Anyway good luck with your decision!

[grumbleina]

4seasons well, I do devote a LOT of thought to 'NZ vs UK'! But whereabouts are you in Auckland, if you don't mind me asking? Auckland is the worst city I know for being godawful if you're in the wrong spot, and delightful if you're in the right one. I do understand what you mean by boring, much as I love the countryside, one expanse of bush can look very much like another. And have they built another museum? There's only one as far as I can remember, unless you're counting the art gallery....

The grocery expense, yeah I may have been a bit off there. I guess what I meant is that I feel like NZ does the fashionable 'seasonal eating' thing very well - if you're buying the fruit and veg it's the season for then great. If you're not, you're fucked. Also I did grow up with and would expect to have again a riotous veg patch throughout the summer, and fruit trees, with associated canning/bottling etc. Which, obviously, I am unlikely to ever be able to afford in Auckland now, sadly.

It's all very much with the current trends for local food etc, but of course it doesn't work that way cos it's trendy, it works that way because importing green beans from Kenya isn't really an option there, the way it is here. And it does take some getting used to - every time I go back I have to adjust to the more limited cuisine and I'm not always happy about it! But, on the flipside, it's also a more sustainable way to eat and live, and of course it is what I grew up with, so it's probably easier for me.

Oh and I would miss european cheese so much. SO much.

Moving back, yes, as well. It's sad but true that you can have had a very good job in NZ and it will count for not much at all in the UK. However, the opposite is also extremely true.

Oh and one last thing - you better be able to drive.

[UnderTheDeepBlueSea]

Re food and house prices, it all depends on where you live. I live in Dunedin (cheapest city in the country) and you can get a decent house with garden, garage etc in a nice suburb for a quarter of the price you could get in Auckland/Queenstown. Food can vary region to region as things like berries/fruits are lot cheaper down here as we are nearer to the vineyards but things but things that grow up north like water melons etc can cost bomb to us. Also we use to live in Queenstown and we can buy your bog standard ice cream for half the price here in Dunedin.

I would try and avoid Auckland at all possible, god I hate it there! My PiL live in South Auckland and what a dump, I dread the yearly visit up there. So much crime up there, expensive, plus there is fuck all to do there, even if you have warmer weather and in all honesty don't come to Auckland if you want a better quality of life, you may as well stay in London! Even Dunedin has two decent museums and an Art Gallery.

Oh yy to being able to drive and Wellington probably has the best public transport out of the whole country but according to DD's friend it's about $10 just from Kapti into centre of Wellington. Also just be careful about earthquakes if you're moving to Wellington..

NZ is so isolated, you never get any big artists here too often and normally only go to Auckland or if your lucky Christchurch, even then you might have to fly to Sydney etc. You don't have Europe on tap either, it's about 2-3 hours to Melbourne alone.

[ToastedOrFresh]

I'm married to a New Zealander. We married in 1994 two years after meeting. (He had arrived in UK from NZ 2 years previously, his family emigrated to NZ from Britain in 1966 when he was little.) I told him before we got married that I did not want to live in NZ and I did not want children. He agreed.

He had his vasectomy 2 months before we left for NZ in 2011. (He once remarked, apropos of nothing that if he had children, he would want them to go to school in NZ. Really ? Thought I. So, these children we have long since agreed not to have would be going to school in NZ. That was about as left of field as they come !)

He had a mid life crisis around 2006 and blurted out, after mowing the lawn (what is it about men and their lawnmowers ?) that we could sell our house in England, buy a house for cash in NZ, both get jobs and live mortgage free with more disposable income. Simples.

My mum had died in 2005 and I was still grieving. I only agreed to it to close down the question so I could get back to my grief. By then, the die was cast. All the talk was how we were going to relocate to NZ, not whether we should. I said to him outright, 'we are going to NZ for you not us'. He didn't reply.

I had to work up the nerve, twice, to ask my husband if he would apply for his unemployment benefit once we got to NZ as he could refer to the tax he paid whilst he worked here. He had no concept of it not working, no plan B, no safety net, no idea what to do if it went wrong.

The reality is, after a disastrous start in Christchurch we bailed out to small town New Zealand 120 miles north of Wellington. My husband was offered a job here. I'm unemployed. I've only ever got short term temporary jobs. I've applied for permanent jobs but it's no always no go either with or without interview. I've been for four unrelated job interviews at our local council offices in the last three years and got turned down each time. It was only on the last turn down that the guy had the balls to admit the job had gone to the internal applicant. Who knew ?

Being unemployed for up to a year does my brain in to say the least. I do voluntary work so I can at least feel useful. Doesn't pay any bills of course. We were a two income household in Britain. How we live now is not an improvement.

I'm not allowed to claim any unemployment benefit as my husband earns more than the minimum wage. Even he remarks that I was taxed as an individual when I'm earning but I'm classed as part of a couple (because I am) when I go to make a claim. For the avoidance of doubt, I really did not come to NZ to life on government hand-outs.

My husband's mother lives in Auckland. She's just come out of hospital after having a one inch cancerous growth removed from the skin on her shin. She's 79. His sister also lives in Auckland. She's married with three children. My husband wanted to get to know them while they were still children. They are now 15 and the twin girls are 9.

My tolerance for NZ is just about at it's end. Next year we will have a full and frank discussion whether we should go home.

[specialsubject]

I speak only as someone who has spent a lot of time in NZ but not actually lived there; so I can't talk about financial aspects.

in no particular order:

not only are you a long way from the UK, you are on the other end of the clock. Calls and skype can only be early morning or late evening for one of you; time difference varies between 11 and 13 hours. No more calling your mum for a lunchtime chat, she won't appreciate that!

going somewhere else means east-coast Oz or Fiji/Cook islands if you want 3 hours flight or so. ANYWHERE else is a big mission with a long-haul flight and jet lag.

I disagree about 'boring' country; if you like your walking/mountain biking you couldn't exhaust it all in a lifetime, plus some skiing in the winter. There are no native mammals, which has pluses and minuses.

Retailmas in the summer is brilliant, but then you have the winter without anything to break it up.

There is an idea that everyone is very sporty, but it is team ball sports and hiking/biking; if these aren't you then you will be limited for choice.

seasonal eating is not 'fashion', it is sense. The quality of produce is much better but you need to get out of the European idea of strawberries in winter. No bad thing, to be honest.

you get much longer daylight hours in summer, they effectively operate on double summer time.

driving standards are bad, with an accident rate twice that of the UK. Bear in mind the landmass is the same size and there are only 4 million Kiwis, so they do hit each other a lot, not helped by over-tired tourists. We actually got warned not to drive at night if at all possible due to lots of drunks.

if you are comparing insane London prices with NZ ones, of course it will look cheap. Where I live your £250k gets you a detached with a big garden in a decent area. Remember the houses are mostly wood and NZ doesn't generally do central heating. The damp and leaky homes things are true.

Wellington is on a great big fault and the road, power line, railway and water line all run along that fault.

I loved the place, but I am happy to live in the UK.

[ShutUpLegs]

My sister married a Kiwi and lives on the South Island. I miss her all the time. We have seen each others' kids about 4 times in their lives. We talk weekly on the phone and we try to travel once every other year - i.e., she comes over here or I go over there - sometimes on our own, sometimes with full family. The gaps between visits are growing....

The reality is that one of you will always be ex-pat and that never changes. Whichever of you is displaced will always feel it.

She loves the outdoor lifestyle - she is sporty and they live on the beach. Every waking hour is spent out of doors and playing sport. Prior to the earthquake in CHCH, they had a small but thriving local arts scene that was enough for her but that is struggling in the post-earthquake era. Having said that, the arts community that is there is small but vibrant and more interesting as a result. I love shopping local NZ clothes designers when I go over - not cheap but there are lots of innovative independent designers in a way that we don't have in the UK. Wellington has good shops and infrastructure - I thought it was a place that I could live. BUT - the earthquake risk does make me very wary about Wellington. I saw my sister's family live through the CHCH quakes and there is no way I would willingly walk into that risk.

I echo others comments about houses. You have to have a dehumidifier!

[Gennz]

Hi OP

I'm a Kiwi and I live in NZ now but I did live in London for several years so I do have a point of comparison, though not UK born & bred obviously. I grew up in Auckland (where I live now) but have also lived in Wellington after I finished uni.

I love it here - I love London but I wouldn't want to raise a family there ... or rather, if I lived in London I'd wanted to live centrally (we lived in Islington) and I doubt we could afford the kind of house in Islington I'd like to raise a family in!

Houses in Auckland are very expensive - relative to income, real estate is probably more over priced than London. But I wouldn't live anywhere else in the country. It's 2 April here (so equivalent of UK October) and I went for a lovely evening swim last night. The climate is great, I'm not a massively outdoorsy person but I love swimming and the endless dark of the UK winter used to really get to me. We have a 3 bed house in a reasonably central part of Auckland with a big back yard & will be putting in a pool this year. Just wouldn;t be possible (or desirable!) in the UK.

In terms of scholing I think a good NZ education will take you anywhere. DH and I both had excellent jobs in London (both lawyers) - and we both felt our education was as good as (in some cases better) than our colleagues. The flip side is that good school zones are increasingly competitive which flows on to the real estate issue, in Auckland at any rate. Houses in excellent school zones in Wellington are much more affordable.

Travel is a bitch. I love the UK and we've been back regularly since we left a few years back but the trip gets harder as I get older (and I'm only mid 30s!). It takes me 2 -3 days to recover fromt he jet lag! It's also very expensive. But conversely you're only a day away from home (a horrible day but still a day). Flights leave for the UK several times a day. But as someone else mentioned, it is something to think really carefully about - if you move out here & have kids here it would be very very hard to move back to the UK if you hated it or if your relationship broke up.

See how you go when you visit & take it from there? Where if your partner from?

[neenawnee]

Sorry to highjack but I'm interested in the child custody issues.
If you had non NZ born kids (British passports )who moved to with you would they be subject to the same conditions ?
Could you return to the Uk without the fathers consent?
Sounds a bit like Saudi otherwise ?

[Gennz]

I have no real idea - so this post is probably useless - but my understanding is that the family court looks at the child's primary residence etc - so if the child/ren was born in NZ and had family there, friends, schooling etc it would be unlikely to allow the child to move away if one parent was opposing it.

[TheCrimsonQueen]

I lived there for a year. Moved to be with my then boyfriend. Absolutely hated it. Sorry OP.

I just couldn't spend my youth that far away from friends and family.

I might if I was 80.

[voodoohoodoo]

We moved to NZ when our bubba was 5 months old in 2006, Kiwi friends in London said sure no problem meeting people especially with a child. The 9 months we spent living in our rickety, mouldy shed house in Wellington was possibly the loneliest I've ever experienced and we've moved coyntries a lot.

Food is both very expensive and there are regular periods when the supply of something just disappears (anyone remember the peanut butter shortage of 2008?), quality of housing varies massively, flights out of NZ are eye watering, sit down and have a glass of wine expensive.

People veer between being over the top friendly or cold to the point of being shunned.

Positives; great healthcare, easy access to doctors and dentists and real human interaction with banks and services instead of recorded messages.

Negatives; gangs, P houses, general sense of aggro all the time, 14 year olds driving cars, tourists and tourist prices.

Have to admit life got a lot better when we moved down to Dunedin but even with a 3 bed house with no mortgage (not rich just swished a price lull) and a DH with a job for life we felt trapped. After spending about a year umming and ahhing we sold up.

We were happy to leave, maybe as a place to retire to, yes but while I've got a pulse. No thanks.

[Gennz]

Have to say I have never come across gangs, P houses or 14 year olds driving cars. Ever. I have read about them in the news but they've never affected my daily life.

Would never live in Dunedin or Wellington though. Maybe if I was 19 and a student in Dndn and could escape to Auckland for the summer

[ByronBaby]

I live in Nelson and have also lived in Wellington and Auckland. A house that looks cheap on-line is likely to be damp and cold with no sun. Kiwis live under this great illusion that they live in a South Pacific paradise - in fact Wellington can be very cold, and rainy .. and the wind you wouldn'y believe. The roof actually blew off our first house - blew clean away into Wellington Harbour. So you have to look for a warm dry house with no leaks and good sun and not a walk up - they look romantic, but are not at all in the middle of winter. Something decent in a good area will cosy about half a mill at least in Wellington. Some things are very expensive - decent clothes and shoes (I buy lots second hand), groceries, meals out, books, doctors visits. But you get smart and buy food from local stalls. I buy fruit and veg from local market gardens and i freeze lots. We raise our own cows and put them in the freezer every autumn and I keep chicken for eggs and meat. My friend even milks her goat to save on milk. It is a small place and has a small town feel even in the big cities. But I am a bit of an artist and have had some success because of the small town thing - it's easier to be noticed.

Good things - primary schools are largely fantastic, lots of access to the outdoors (my kids sail and ski and tramp), beautiful days even in winter, holidays to Oz and the South Pacific (although I miss Europe so much - used to go to France and italy a lot), people are friendly although i find that kiwis often don't get Poms and my very best friends are either other Brits or Ozzies. Sarcasm is not generally on the kiwi radar and i have been misconstrued soooo many times. Other good things are a real can-do approach to life, great access to beaches and lakes, no lurid tabloids.

Bad things (in my view) - such a long way from home - i sometimes have British dreams and wake up feeling quite sad. Sports obsession as long as the sport is rugby. Kiwis talking themselves up - the headline on losing the Cricket World Cup was 'Victorious in Defeat' - umm, no, you lost! Teens talk them selves up soo much and its very unattractive. No proper pubs. I miss a sense of history. very crap TV. No choice of fabric shops to make stuff. Expensive internet.

I imagine this is no help as I have very mixed opinions. Would i move home? Not now, but never say never. My kids are Kiwis and i can't imagine them in a British school at all. And i know this is traitorous, but I would consider a move to Oz, despite the casual racism and cultural apartheid.

[ToastedOrFresh]

Voodoohoodoo - We were happy to leave, maybe as a place to retire to, yes but while I've got a pulse. No thanks.

I totally agree with you and CrimsonQueen too.

Byron Baby - Kiwis live under this great illusion that they live in a South Pacific paradise - in fact Wellington can be very cold, and rainy .. and the wind you wouldn't believe.

I agree and the worst of it is, other immigrants, especially British immigrants fall for this nonsense too. Yeah NZ is in the Pacific but seawater is still cold in the winter no matter where you live.

[Athrawes]

It's bloody marvelous and over my dead body will I move back to the UK. All our family are in the UK, we visit, they visit but to be honest once the oldest have popped their clogs I won't be going back - I rather rear t spending all that time and money visiting the cold old grey country when I could be here.
I live in Dunedin and have a four bed home and huge garden right on the sea front for the price of a three bed semi in any ordinary town in the UK. My DS is just having a shower after a quick kayak with Dad in the bay at the bottom of the garden. I didn't go for a swim because I wanted to go online!
I am sure Auckland is very lovely if you can afford to live in the nice bits but it is still a big city and if you want to do City living just live in London or Hong Kong.
Food is pricey but notridiculously so, people here don't judge you for making sandwiches for lunch and not having the finest of things. They are in general a less judgemental society than the UK, less obsessed with class and having the latest phone.
I do miss the British sense of humour and M&S pants, but M&S do free delivery. Kiwis are a more serious lot so there is still a slight sense of not quite fitting in, but it is better now we are in Dunedin.

[Athrawes]

It is quite racist though. Very anti Asian, making jokes about Chinese people is shockingly acceptable, and few people seem able to distinguish between Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Indian. Government policy is for positive discrimination towards Maori and Pacifika people which can seem odd coming from the UK.

[Gennz]

Athrawes your comment abou racism is quite racist! The "positive discrimination" you refer to in respect of Maori people is to honour the Treaty of Waitangi obligations which forms the basis for the Crown's authority to govern New Zealand.

I agree there is a lot of Chinese xenophobia but all NZers I know can distinguish between Chinese/Japanese/Korean & Indian people! I think attitudes vary quite a lot between the very very white, very conservative lower South Island and very multi-cultural Auckland.

[neenawnee]

We have been looking to move since 2011 but just can't fathom living on the salaries on offer nor milking my own cows !
We'd though the earthquake would generate a suitable role for my DH but nothing has promised more than a third of current salary.
So we are currently in the Middle East surrounded by kiwis who are saving for a slice of paradise back home.
I was very disheartened to hear from one of them that selling our place in the UK wouldn't buy us the dream .

[TheCrimsonQueen]

I agree with whoever said it was racist. It is the most racist country I have ever lived in.

I was mistaken regularly for being part Maori (am not) and would have people cross the street to avoid me, negative comments under the breath and would be refused service in shops until they heard the English accent. Horribly racist.

[Gennz]

Where did you live CrimsonQueen? That's awful.

[Athrawes]

I understand about the ToW and why it is necessary, I really do. Just warning the OP that it seems racist if you come from the UK, where the aim, the endeavour, if not the fact, is to treat everyone the same and where offering advantages to one ethnic group it would be illegal. My main shock is how anti-Asian sentiments are acceptable in every aspect of public life, how Asian tourists are blamed for so many car accidents, how xenophobic kiwis are about Chinese investment but not about investment from non Asians etc.

[andantecantabile]

Hi everyone, wow so many replies! Thank you so much. I'm new to posting on mumsnet and I assumed that as I'd only had one email to say I had a reply, I didn't know there had been so many posts! I'm off to read through all the replies in detail now, and will be back shortly