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Whether you're considering emigrating or an expat abroad, you'll find likeminds on this forum.

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Whether you're considering emigrating or an expat abroad, you'll find likeminds on this forum.

Living overseas

This is a long shot but .... anyone a British Citizen NOT born in the UK and wanting to apply for citizenship of ANOTHER country?

56 replies

ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:03

Sorry for long title but I need some help and if anyone out there has any experience of this I would be grateful:

Background: I was born in South Africa of British parents (Dad Brit by birth, Mum became Brit when SA became independent)
I have always had a British passport on which it states I am a British Citizen despite never having grown up in the UK but lived for 14 years of my adult life in the UK.

Anyway ... for very complicated reasons I am wanting to apply for my NZ citizenship - wasn't planning to but I have to.

On the form it says that I have to supply my Certificate of Citizenship if I was born in a country OTHER than the one of my citizenship. My passport isn't good enough apparently.

I don't have such a document. Has anyone ever had to do this and how do I go about getting such a certificate. My British citizenship is not in doubt .... but where is the document?

Anyone???

Cheers ...

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Report

PollyLogos · 31/05/2006 12:10

I would contact the home office ghosty and ask. It may be that you have to get it from the equivalant office in SA though.

I have a complicated situation getting a Brish citizenship for my DS1 because he was born in Kenya and has greek passport. He is eligible but I need some papers from Kenya and without actually going there it is rather complicated and very time consuming!

foxinsocks · 31/05/2006 12:11

are you living in the UK now?

ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:15

I am in NZ now ...

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foxinsocks · 31/05/2006 12:16

I would call the NZ office and ask what they want. You can get a citizenship certificate for people who have become citizens recently (through that whole ceremony etc.) but I don't know if you can ask for one retrospectively.

Normally, when applying for the passport, I have to supply my parent's details (as one is South African and one is British) but my passport has always stated British citizen.

How about your birth certificate?

ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:16

And have permanent residency in NZ.

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foxinsocks · 31/05/2006 12:17

actually, the British Embassy in NZ should be able to help you. I can't see why your passport isn't good enough.

ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:19

South African birth certificate. I was on my mum's British passport until I was 13 and got my own. That shows my age doesn't it? Remember the days when kids could be on their mum's passports?
I went on the Home Office website and it looks like I am a British Citizen by descent rather than birth or grant but I can't find any information on a citizenship certificate.

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ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:20

Thanks for answers btw ... all helpful

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foxinsocks · 31/05/2006 12:22

I don't recall ever getting an actual certificate. I'm pretty sure in our day you didn't get a certificate, they just used your birth certificate plus all the info about your parents to give you a passport.

Does it say anything on one of the pages of your passport?

ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:31

It says in my passport that I am a British Citizen. But according to the NZ citizenship form that isn't enough ... [puzzled]

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SueW · 31/05/2006 12:33

I just tried to call my mum to see if she could help as my DB is similar altho has Brit mum and dad he was born in Libya in late 60s. I know his birth was registered with the Brit Embassy there - in the same way our DD's has been reigstered with the NZ High Commission in London and we have a certificate which acknowledges her as an NZ citizen - perhaps there is no UK equivalent?

Are you applying for NZ citizenship to make move to Aus easier? You will get right to work etc immediately and not have to go as supported spouse or some complicated visa?

ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:36

That's why SueW ... I knew you would come along soon
It means though, that DD, DS and I will have to stay in NZ until the citizenship comes through while DH goes to Aus without us ... so we are keen to get the forms in asap ...

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TheHonArfy · 31/05/2006 12:37

we are currently dealing with NZ forms to get residency for DH and DD - it is something of a nightmare involving several obscure documents and forking out lots of cash to strange medical people
I would look on the UK Home Office website and if you can't find anything relevant then contact them. If they don't do such a thing, maybe they could give you something that says your passport is enough to prove your citizenship to those pesky Kiwis. As far as I can see, birth certificates are what the UK uses rather than citizenship ones.

ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:38

My parents didn't need to register my birth in SA at the time ... I asked them ages ago when I was applying for my most recent passport ...

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ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:40

SueW ... thanks for ringing your mum for me
Arfy ... you think the kiwis are bad re. immigration ... the aussies are WORSE
If I had been born in the UK I don't think it would be a problem ... the fact I wasn't is an issue it seems ....

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ghosty · 31/05/2006 12:42

Am off to bed now ... will check in in the morning ... thanks all ..

BTW SueW ... went to Melbourne at the weekend ... I see what you mean, it is a lovely city but so BIG compared to Auckland - I felt like a right country bumpkin!

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TheHonArfy · 31/05/2006 12:44

oh yes I'm very glad it's NZ and not Oz we're off to! just object to all the bleeding CASH we're forking out to weirdy doctors for filling in endless forms...

I think the Kiwis (I keep forgetting I'm one too ) are assuming that everywhere has an equivalent citizenship certificate to them (like the one I have with my NZship on it). You'd think the passport would do, and I'm sure it would and that's what the UK officials will say - just a question of persuading the NZ ones that it's OK

SueW · 01/06/2006 00:13

LOL ghosty. I didn't go much of my well-beaten track in Melbourne so it never felt too big.

I can't really compare it to Auckland - that felt like a massive city when we went there for an evening having spent weeks with DH's mum in Nelson. We went to visit his uncle and aunt who live in a lovely ?townhouse and went out for dinner in some harbour/waterfront area where there were lots of restaurants. I think I was too stressed out with his mum's illness (terminal cancer) and he forthcoming flight back to UK to take much notice of anything.

I guess the population comparison is quite mindblowing though :)

threebob · 01/06/2006 02:35

Ghosty - I had a long chat with a man from the British HC about this when ds was born, and he said that they "don't do Certificates of Citizenship - just keep your passport up to date and you will be fine."

So in theory you should be fine anyway. Isn't it funny that you have to become a NZ citizen in order to leave NZ to live in Australia? You think they would come up with a better reason than that.

I've known people move to Australia and then just fly back for their citizenship ceremony. You can stay for 3 months at a time as long as you don't work.

Cadmum · 01/06/2006 03:55

ghosty: Have you managed to speak to a NZ official about the requirements on the form?

We are in a similar but oposite siruation with ds2 who was born in the UK but is Canadian because his dad and I are. The New World Countries (for lack of a better term) like Canada and NZ offer citizenship cards to citizens born abroad in lieu of a birth certificate. That would explain why they request one but if the UK do not have an equivalent then surely they must make exceptions?

We are having similar issues wuth the wording on the forms to obtain dd2's citizenship card because they require a secondary photo id such as a driver's license and the baby is only 12 weeks!

I hope that you have some answers soon...

scienceteacher · 01/06/2006 07:03

British Citizenship is always proven by the original documents that conferred it - ie your parents' birth certificates/passports.

Do you have South African citizenship? It may be easier to apply as a SA citizen, so that your birth cert and passport match up.

Being a British Citizen by descent means that you can't pass on the citizenship to a foreign-born child.

SofiaAmes · 01/06/2006 07:51

In some countries you have to re-register the birth in that country. For example, my children were born in the uk, but are also american and italian by virtue of being my children. I have had to register their births at both the us and italian embassies in london in order to establish their citizenship. It's not too complicated a process, just tedious in the case of italy as they have lost the paperwork several times and forced me to refile!

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SueW · 01/06/2006 08:44

Her birth cert and passport won't match up though will they cos birth cert is SA and passport is UK.

14 years living in the UK as an adult - would that lead to full Brit Citizenship rather than Brit by Descent? (DD is NZ by Descent having been born in the UK with NZ father but can 'upgrade' if she lives in NZ for 3 years)

scienceteacher · 01/06/2006 08:57

You can't do that with British Citizen by Descent, SueW - you have that status for life.

It's only a problem if a BCbyD has a child outside the UK - it does not get British Citizenship, and has to immigrate into the UK (can then easily be registered as a British Citizen otherwise than by descent.

scienceteacher · 01/06/2006 09:03

I meant South African passport/South African citizenship...

If this is not possible or desireable, it is always possible to write 'not available' or 'not applicable' when it asks for a certificate of citizenship. The UK does not issue certificates of citizenship for natural born British citizens, so that would be the truthful thing to write on the form.

It would be a good idea, for additional proof, to have parents' birth certificates and marriage certificate, as that is what confers the citizenship.

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