SINGAPORE, LAWS, DRUGS ETC ( hope i am not offending anyone ))

[Putthatbookdown]

It is a lovely place to visit etc and I am not suggesting any people here are going to be getting into trouble but as it is topical in the news it needs stating
Singapore has the highest number of dealth penalty sentences for drugs offences (Amnesty International ) Just possession carries a MANDATORY death penalty Being a foreigner will be no defence as 25% of the population are foreigners . I am quite sure our Mumsnetter are only going for work/travel etc but this is place is heavily into Law and Order. I know 2 lots of people out there who do not like this aspect of it. It appears to be so Westernised but it not famous for democracy. I would be very careful to check all luggage etc

[laptopwieldingharpy]

Your point is?
To many of us that aspect if the law is actuallynwhat makes it so appealing to raise a family.

[Putthatbookdown]

SOME people may not know and take small risks not realising how severe they are Judging by some of the posts here -not only re Singapore many other places too-people are not always told In fact good employers should tell them : Iwas told years ago by my employers re drug -fuelled crime so heavy penalties AS A PROTECTION It appeared that some of their staff had been approached by people trying to set them up or sometimes just direct selling.YOU JUST NEED TO KEEP AWAY FROM SUCH AREAS as you would need to do say in certain areas of London. Good for you that you know and are happy with that choice: you know, that is the point. You are also a guest so you must abide by their laws anyway

[Mummyinggnome]

?!
And therefore a safe environment to raise children.
Whenever you live in a foreign country you have to abide by their rules.

[RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief]

I think most people realise that international drug smuggling in Asia is not going to enhance your life expectancy.

[humblebumble]

Really confused by the point of your OP.

Singapore is very clear about it's drug policies ... I think they even announce it on the plane.

I thought international drug smuggling wasn't particularly smart anywhere and to richmanpoorman 's point, it definitely won't enhance your life expectancy in Asia ...

[Merlion]

I am also confused. I would have also been very surprised if my or dh's employers had mentioned it to me before I came to work here too?! I don't imagine a UK company would take too kindly to its employees being involved with drugs regardless of the law in Singapore.

I think generally expats who come to live here won't have done so without having done their research and so be aware of the political regime and the legislation.

[londonmoo]

Er, confused over here too. Drug-smuggling anywhere is a big no-no in most people's books. And yes, Spore's laws are well-known. And yes, this difference in culture is what the experience is all about - we could also talk about the shocking rains and the claustrophobic humidity. I hadn't planned to break any laws on arrival but will keep your reminder in my thoughts. Think that's covered everything. Very odd post...

[exoticfruits]

The laws couldn't be plainer!
You get the stark warning on the plane before you land- big letters in bold print
Warning- drug smuggling is punishable by death or words to that effect. If you don't like it don't go.

[Putthatbookdown]

I was not actually posting about drug smuggling as it a serious offence worldwide. I was more interested in the lesser known things such as caning, including caning of children in educational establishments, a long prison sentence if you even just get in a car with any alcohol in you, being homosexual, and the problems with free speech/giving your opinion. It seems very backward for a country that purports to be so modern.

[londonmoo]

OK I'm leaving this thread now. It's all just too weird.

[empirestateofmind]

The laws are clear here and the police are extremely effective. Crime rates are very low as the penalties are tough. For me that makes the country very attractive.

There is no graffiti and no vandalism. It is so safe my teenagers can walk home and use the buses late at night.

OP if you don't like this then don't visit Singapore.

[RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief]

Er, what? You can get in a car/ taxi with alcohol in you. You just cant drive the car. A lot of people in the UK think the penalties for DD should be much much harsher (and agree with the zero unit limit) so I dont think it's particularly backward of them (some might say they're ahead of the game on that one)

OP, have you ever actually been to Singapore?

[Putthatbookdown]

Yes I have but only as a visitor but have friends/family out there.Lovely place. I like it but the people I know do not like living there even though some are v rich and powerful I am doing research as to why x and y does not happen etc.
It is very interesting .The place does very well on business and finance and it is I suppose a bit like Switzerland Singapore really does have to fight its corner: unique place .Surrouded by Muslim countries etc Muslim influence no doubt. Very expat i.e little concern for the local population and what happens to them Singapore is honest: How much do you make? etc Honest about attracting the dollar etx Most executed are poor/unemployed etc Personally I agree about low crime ,children etc and it is clear how they have succeeded i am impartial. Alas Amnesty International etc have panned it and why> Because all the sentences are carried out in secrecy. "Democratic" countries do not like it: it has to be public, you see Shame really because as you point out in one way they are totally honest.
low crime rate etc but

[laptopwieldingharpy]

All the poins you make are valid but its just not the right forum for it.

We definitely turn a blind eye to many things as expats if that's what your getting at.....i just dont think mumsnet is the right forum for this discussion.

[ripsishere]

I'm a bit confused about why you've posted TBH.
If a sensible person is making a choice to move to a country with a totally different set of values and laws, surely they'll find out about it before they go.
When we first left England, I knew I wouldn't be wearing a bikini in the supermarket in Oman.

[drcrab]

Have my first .

[humblebumble]

Personally I think the local population is provided for well (healthcare, education and housing). There is a large disparity between rich and poor (locals as well as expats). Which isn't an unusual scenario anywhere, I am not saying it is perfect but as a society to live in it is extremely safe and reasonably tolerant.

There is a desire to educate the Singaporean population well enough so that "expat" talent isn't required. It takes time and you will always need outside people to come and work there (from maids to CEOs).

There may not be transparency with the judicial system however I think their laws are quite clear.

[technotwat]

Is that you, Gabby?

[exoticfruits]

I can't see the point of the thread. The rules are clear - don't go if you don't like it. I don't like the fact that if you lose your job there is no back up apart from your family - but you don't go to foreign countries and expect them to change. If you go it is very sensible to stick to the rules. When in Rome................

[RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief]

Precisely- I find it hard to believe that these "rich and powerful" friends hadn't realised the deal before they went. Presumably they are somewhat worldly and educated people, used to moving in international circles.

In all expat hubs you find people who don't really like it there/ are there under sufferance, but hell, they're all there for a reason (usually financial) so if the justice system bothers them that much, maybe they just need to review the priority they place on their liberal principles vs their bank balance

[crazynanna]

What parts of London do you suggest people "stay away" from?

[exoticfruits]

My friends have a wonderful standard of life in Singapore. They realise that they have to stick to the rules - they find it worth it.

[Putthatbookdown]

Thank you all for contributing to my research. Singapore obviously has advantages for people bringing up children . People have all sorts of reasons for living abroad but considering many parents in the UK believe there is too much sexualisation of advertising ,the media etc it seems that Singapore protects them from some of this. Also like many countries there are some laws that are still on the books but are no longer persued with any vigour. Yes and there is plenty of brainwashing by Uk//Us governments which can be more subtle attempts to stop free expression hence why people pack and go!!

[blueshoes]

OP, you said "Alas Amnesty International etc have panned it and why> Because all the sentences are carried out in secrecy. "Democratic" countries do not like it: it has to be public, you see Shame really because as you point out in one way they are totally honest."

Could you please explain this? What is your evidence that all sentencing is carried out in secrecy. The Singapore judicial system is one of the most transparent, efficient and highly regarded in the world (I accept the criticism about the courts being used to suppress political opposition but even then the judgments are made in open court).

You are being inflammatory, if not ignorant and prejudiced.