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registering with NHS for baby born out of UK

(50 Posts)
nello Thu 09-Jun-11 14:38:05

Is this possible? My baby was born out of the EU and we are now moving to Italy. I would like to be able to register her with the NHS. IS that possible, or do I need to wait until we move back to the UK?

Thanks

natation Thu 09-Jun-11 17:46:06

You can only register with the NHS for a number if you live in the UK. Is that the case with you? If so, I'm sure you will find the answer on how to register at any GP's surgery.

ihearthuckabees Fri 10-Jun-11 18:56:20

My Ds was born outside EU and when we moved back I just took him to the surgery and registered him - no problem. I think if you're resident in the UK, it's a given (maybe not if you're an illegal immigrant or asylum seeker - not sure). You can't use the NHS if you're not resident here anyway, so why bother when you live in Italy?

isw Fri 10-Jun-11 18:58:09

Sorry quick thread hijax, we are just preparing to move back to UK with DD who was born abroad. Do I need to get a UK birth certificate or was passport enough. many thanks

natation Fri 10-Jun-11 19:07:54

You cannot get a UK birth certificate for a child not born in the UK (a few exceptions like forces children but these exceptions would know). You can register the birth of a British citizen at a British embassy, if that is what you mean.

bigbadbarry Fri 10-Jun-11 19:19:45

My DD has a British birth cert even though she was not born here. We had to apply for it through the embassy before they issued her passport.

ginmakesitallok Fri 10-Jun-11 19:21:54

If you are moving to Italy why do you want to register her with the NHS?

natation Fri 10-Jun-11 19:32:38

Sorry, should be a bit more precise. A UK birth certificate is for a child born in the UK. I think what bigbadbarry is referring to is consular birth registration which I mentioned above. It is not a birth certificate and cannot be used as such (theoretically). It's only useful really for children of diplomats, forces etc, those who are born abroad and retain, due to parental status, the right to give British nationality to any of their children who may be born abroad too (sorry didn't explain that too well. But many people like to have a British birth document for their child. It is not necessary to have this document in order to obtain a British citizen's passport.

www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/births-deaths-marriages-civil/registering-a-birth

isw Fri 10-Jun-11 19:46:35

Thanks, she has a british passport and a spanish birth certificate. We haven´t applied for a consular birth registration as it costs over 100 euros! But am now wondering if it will make things easier for when we are back in UK. Anyone got any personal experiences they can share?

natation Fri 10-Jun-11 20:14:55

No I really cannot see why it would make your life easier, especially since most people would not even know what it is - mind you since I've not seen one recently, cannot remember how much it resembles a UK birth certificate, if it does, some people might think it is and accept it as one. In any case, you can still apply for one once in the UK, look at the link above.

bigbadbarry Fri 10-Jun-11 20:53:12

natation thank you for that, it is really interesting - I really thought that was her birth certificate! For the record, it completely resembles one.

MmeBlueberry Fri 10-Jun-11 22:01:08

You don't need a consular birth certificate as British citizenship is dependent on the parents' nationalities, not the place of birth.

The downside is that if the child ever needs to prove citizenship, they would need to produce their parents' documents. For most situations, a passport is enough, and subsequent passports just require you to provide the expiring passport.

When you return to the UK and wish to register with a GP, they just need proof that you are legally resident in the UK, ie by providing a British passport. Presumably, you will be registering the entire family, so it should be a straightforward process.

ISW I am moving back to England from Spain in 4 months and my DD3 was born here and obviously has a Spanish BC. I didn't register her birth with the consulate, but they are aware of her existence from her passport application (via Madrid). I certainly wasn't aware of it being 100€ to register her as they just told me if I wanted to I could but it really wasn't essential as we had the Libro de Familia, BC and British Passport, so all eventualities were covered.

When I was last back in London I went to my GP and registered her there. Once we're back properly then I'll do all the other stuff.

natation Fri 10-Jun-11 22:11:46

Little correction, British nationality is too complicated, it is not based solely on parents' nationality, for some people, where they are born, where their parents were born etc is essential. For example, a child born in Spain of parents who are British citizens but when neither of these parents were born in the UK (unless forces/diplomats as one of the few exceptions) they CANNOT pass on British nationality to that child.

jenniec79 Fri 10-Jun-11 22:14:09

The phrase is "ordinarily resident in UK". It tends to be taken as meaning "going to be in uk for over 6 months". When you move back from Italy, head to your intended surgery and speak to the Practice Manager. In the interim I think non-emergency care-wise DC isn't entitled to NHS care. (Obviously emergencies are different), but I'd be concerned about making sure you get imms sorted if due even if it has to be private.

Sidge Fri 10-Jun-11 22:21:35

You can't register with the NHS if you aren't ordinarily resident in the UK.

When resident in the UK you can apply to register at a GP surgery (if that's what you mean by registering with the NHS). You will need proof of address as well as proof of ID and possibly citizenship.

MmeBlueberry Fri 10-Jun-11 22:36:05

Natation, British nationality is conferred on sight of the parents' documentation, not the child's, which is why a consular birth registration is not required. It is immediately superseded by the child's first passport.

When a child is born abroad, it is a British citizen by descent.

If neither parent is a British citizen otherwise than by descent, then the child born abroad is not automatically a British citizen at birth (but may be eligible for registration).

Most countries have a system built into their citizenship laws where it is not possible to receive citizenship with no recent ties to the country. The UK says that citizens by descent cannot pass on citizenship to children born outside the UK. Other countries may have different requirements but it usually all adds up to parents needing to be born or have lived for several years in the country in question.

natation Sat 11-Jun-11 07:36:51

Mmblueberry, you are exactly right, but as I said, British nationality not based solely on parents' nationality, it is based on more than that in many cases. It's my job.

Natation - I may be being spectacularly dense here...but I am a British Citizen, born to British parents in the UK. That bit I get. My exP is a British Citizen, born to a British mother and Australian father (but British p/port holder) in Borneo. Our DD was born in Spain in 2009, obviously has Spanish BC, but British P/Port - does that mean she is totally British, or British by descent? NOt that it's a problem at this stage in her years, just wondering for the future.... Thanks in advance.

mumoverseas Sat 11-Jun-11 11:26:22

natation not sure you are right about the birth certificate. DC3 and 4 born abroad (not forces) and we have birth certificates issued by FCO. They are definitely their birth certificates and were used to apply for their passports, register for child benefit when we returned to UK and register for schools in UK.

natation Sat 11-Jun-11 12:29:33

Go and read the FCO link. They are NOT birth certificates. Bigbadbarry has confirmed they are however identical in appearance to a UK birth certificate. You do not need these FCO birth registration documents to apply for a British passport abroad or in the UK, FCO staff are officially encouraged to discourage people from the expense at in most cases they are not necessary at all. You don't need them to register for UK child benefit either. All that is needed for child benefit is a valid national document ie passport / national ID card, 1951 refugee document PLUS the proof that one of the child's parents is now living in the UK, irrelevant where the child is actually living (goodness this little known fact is taken advantage of frequently by families who "borrow" children and their national IDs in order to obtain child benefit for children who are not theirs, but UK government being too underfunded that checks on these children's parentage who are living often on the other side of the world are simply not practical and the child benefit is paid for "fake" children).

RockStock ... if your daughter is born in Spain or outside the UK and has been given a British passport, then she is British by descent (few exceptions eg forces children treated as if born in the UK). Her dad (unless he is an exception) would not be able to confer his British nationality on your daughter as he would be British by descent and not from being born in the UK, so British by descent can descend only one generation. So you are British from being born in the UK, so you can confer your British nationality on your daughter and any other children by descent, if they are born outside the UK. If you give birth to any future children in the UK, they will be British by birth in the UK and they can confer their British nationality on any of their children. Hey it is complicated!

In summary, your daughter is British by descent and not by birth in the UK. She cannot confer her British nationality on any of her subsequent children, if they are also born outside the UK like she was. However, she could then move to the UK with her children born outside the UK and before the age of 18, they could under certain conditions then apply for "registration" as British citizens, so long as it is done before they reach the age of 18. Your daughter can also give birth in the UK and then those children will become British at birth automatically, without the need to "register" .

Here's a well written and accurate summary of British nationalities laws.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law#Children_born_abroad_after_1982_to_British_mothers_or_to_British_fathers_before_or_after_1983

mumoverseas Sat 11-Jun-11 12:34:06

christ, you are a stroppy cow aren't you. Did someone get out of bed the wrong side? All I'm saying is you don't actually know everything. The document I have clearly says birth certificate on it. I don't give a flying fuck what you think the case is or what the FCO website says. Did you not know that sometimes people get things wrong?

Blimey - I think I get it now! My older children were all born in London to me and their (British born, British citizen) father 14+ years ago. So I'll just run with the fact the DD3 is British and is likely to remain in Britain once we move back at the end of the year. If there are any bridges to cross in later years, then she can do it!! Thank you for that though, bloody confusing it can be. I do know that at 16 DD3 can apply for a Spanish p/port to hold in conjunction with her British one, but can't really see many benefits at the moment.

MmeBlueberry Sat 11-Jun-11 18:59:42

Rock,

If your foreign born DD has a child abroad, British citizenship is not totally straightforward. She will need to demonstrate ties to the UK. I think the rule is to live in the UK for five years, so I'm sure your DD will be fine.

My DD is in the same situation - born abroad but moved to the UK when she was 18 months. Although she is a citizen by descent, she now has all the rights of a citizen otherwise than by descent, including citizens by naturalisation/registration.

Milliways Sat 11-Jun-11 19:09:17

At our surgery we ask for ID & proof of address. We look at Visa's to ensure the reason for stay is not "visit" as get a LOT of parents from abroad staying with UK based kids for holidays and expecting free treatment.

Nationality is no issue - if you are within our practice boundary for a "lawful, settled purpose" then you can register.

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