Maybe moving to Calgary

[Cupboarddoor]

My DH has been offered a job in Calgary and we are considering whether to go or not...

We have 3 DC (6, 4 & 22 months) and I currently work f/t but would probably have to not work once we are out there. We have been wanting to relocate abroad for a while, so this seems like an exciting opportunity.

Has anyone any advice on what it's like living in Calgary or Canada vs. UK and anything we need to consider when relocating?

TIA

[zandy]

Bump.

[Cupboarddoor]

Thanks Zandy

[zandy]

Wish I could help more. Sounds like an exciting move. You looking forward to it?

[roary]

I am from Alberta and would go back IN A FLASH if DH were into it. Here's why:

1. The best school system in the world, according to the OECD, and totally free. I have such serious pangs about this - an amazing state run education system is such a huge bonus. Your kids can go to their neighbourhood school and walk there and it'll be great, wherever you live.
   

2.Very family friendly - lots of cheap activities for kids, daycamps run by the city in the summer, fantastic leisure centres that look like fancy high priced gyms...

1. Great outdoors lifestyle especially in Calgary, a short drive to the ROckies for skiing, hiking, etc.
   
2. Canadians: friendly! polite! The more time I spend away from home the more I am convinced that Canada is pretty darn close to an egalitarian paradise, with great health care, education, etc etc.
   

Now, I can hear you asking why DH and I are not there. It's really DH's work that prevents it but it's also.....

1. winter. It is cold and long. (late October - early April is about standard). The days are short, but no shorter really than the UK (Calgary is probably close to southern Scotland in terms of latitude). And by cold, frequently below -20. The length of winter would be tricky for DH as he is a hot weather man. But I think it's not so bad and here's why:
   

1. Snow is better than rain for playing outside. When I was a kid we cross country skiied, went tobogganing (sledging), skating, downhill skiing, etc etc all the time.
   
2. TO an extent you can dress for cold
   
3. SUMMERS are glorious - this is what i miss most living here. You can cope with crappy winter if you know that there will be 3-4 months of solidly sunny weather, which there usually is in Alberta.
   
4. ALl those winter activities are usually floodlit at night, so you don't hit the old 4pm, cold, and pouring with rain problem you do here. If it's 4pm, dark, and snowing, off you go skating!
   

Really, I'd do it in a heartbeat.I'd be happy to provide more info. Making me homesick :)

[roary]

PS if you do want to relocate childcare etc are all excellent, so depending on visa situation you could work.

[zandy]

Sounds idyllic.

[lazydog]

To balance roary's description, I'd like to add that there are some more negatives that haven't been mentioned.

But before that, I'd first like to say that I am definitely not trying to put you off. I love living in Canada and hope to not have to move back to the UK any time soon. It's just that roary's post is a teensy bit too "rose tinted spectacles", in my opinion .

(1) Calgary is just a seriously ugly place (sorry!) It's also flat and boring and yes, you can just about glimpse the Rockies in the distance if you're out to the West of Calgary, but they're so far away that they are really a tiny feature on the distant horizon. They're not too far away to drive for a day trip's skiing, though, so that's a real bonus.

(2) When the area is not white with snow, it's dirty brown... You do get a brief period in the springtime when things look a bit green, but in no time at all everywhere is then scorched brown and dry. When I say "dirty brown" I only mean dusty/arid... Calgary is a nice, clean city.

(3) If you don't have extra insurance then you will find that extremely high dental and prescription costs soon mount up. Many people get good benefits via their employer (or husband's employer) though, so that obviously helps.

(4) Cost of living might come as a shock. Eating out is cheaper than in the UK but groceries and alcohol are more expensive. As is car insurance, too (phenomenally so, compared to the UK!) but I feel that aspect is generally cancelled out by much cheaper fuel. Although, of course, the larger distances between places - and the fact that cities are not designed to be walked around (Canadians drive everywhere) - means that you will do more mileage than in the UK.

(5) Bad exchange rate at the moment. It used to be that it was cheaper to live day to day over here, but there's been a huge change in exchange rates (it was about $2.20 to the pound when I moved and now it's $1.57!!!) so any money you bring over will buy you far less than it would have done 5 years ago.

(5) Wages for jobs over here tend to be less than you would get paid for the same position in the UK. Obviously that's less of an issue if you are negotiating with a company while employed elsewhere, and you don't actually need their job, as you simply wouldn't agree to a package that didn't make financial sense!

Let us know what you decide? :)

[lazydog]

Sorry - typo: Calgary is a nice clean city.

I'm being too harsh. I just don't really like cities in general. I love to visit them, but not to live in them. I hate having neighbours right on top of me and despite Canada being so huge, within cities it seems that the houses are big inside but have tiny gardens (yards) and only a few feet gap between each house :(

Space is one of the main reasons we moved to Canada. For us there was no point if we were then just going to live in another built up area. There was nothing about Canada that was a real "pull" unless we went for a totally different lifestyle, if you see what I mean? Here we could afford a property on a decent amount of land and we never could have done that in England. To achieve that we had to live quite a way from all the usual amenities. That was something we were happy to do, but would be many people's idea of hell, LOL!

That's why Calgary is not somewhere I would ever choose to live, but I do know many ex-pats (and "cradle" Canadians) that live in Calgary and love it there.

[madwomanintheattic]

the first and most important thing you need to know about calgary is that mn always shuts down the server once you get the kids in bed.

bastards. feck. typed a huge reply and it's been swallowed by the tech update.

anyways, i love calgary.
we don't live in the city, but there are lots of commuter type towns (cochrane, airdrie - you could always live in 'little england' (okotoks) if you were desperate homesick.

it's not really a city tbh - just a neat downtown core with a scary one way system, a wider industrial type area, and a billion miles of suburbia. there are zillions more houses being built all the time and it is spreading, but it doesn't really have an urban edge - it's more like 'the truman show'. i do love calgary, honestly! there are loads of lakeside communities, and they do work really hard to provide more of a small town amenity type feel to each residential area, rather than it being 'a city'.

why wouldn't you work? i assume dh is entering on a twp, so you would just need to get a spousal open work permit on entry. no problemo.

less than an hour to beautiful skiing, hiking, biking, fishing, climbing... if you are an outdoorsy family (or want to be) then this is probably an opportunity you shouldn't turn down!

exchange rates - those of us with long memories are a bit sour but tbh if he's being paid here it won't matter. wages look lower, but there are often hidden bonuses and benefits that add up, that aren't advertised up front (i suspect tax dodge lol) but a basic wage is often nothing like what actually appears in the bank...

weather - you might want to look into this. last week it was down to -32 in town (and -42 out in the sticks where we are) without wind chill. this year is above average for snow fall but you can get snow anywhere between september and may (out here it's been known in july lol) and you can get sunburn one day, and a foot of snow the next.
but it's generally lovely in the summer and bracing in the winter.

you'll need to get yourself to the mountain equipment co-op to buy all in one snowsuits for the dcs. and buy a chariot carriers three wheeler bike trailer with stroller kit, that you can batten down the hatches and keep the snow, and then the sun, off the littlies.

do it, do it, do it. you won't regret it. but do a recce and have a look around before you settle on where to live. a lot depends on where dh will be working.

head towards the rockies if you'd rather green not dusty brown. you would hate the prairies.

[madwomanintheattic]

oh, oh, oh, i forgot to say (gotta get in first)

... but it's a dry cold....

(someone would have mentioned that soon )

car insurance - a few companies are recognising uk no-claims now, so that knocks about $500/600 off the quote, but it is definitely worth shopping around.

would this be a twp, or would it lead to pr? we decided not to go on twp, but wait it out for pr first - are you looking for a permanent move, or to do something different for a couple of years?

(just curious - the dcs are little enough to be portable, but it's a big step if you are selling a house etc)

[lazydog]

"the first and most important thing you need to know about calgary is that mn always shuts down the server once you get the kids in bed."

Of course! How could I forget to mention that??!

[lazydog]

"car insurance - a few companies are recognising uk no-claims now, so that knocks about $500/600 off the quote, but it is definitely worth shopping around."


Ahhh, yes - "shopping around"... A concept that's still not an option for us poor buggers in BC with the ICBC monopoly on the compulsory portion of our insurance

[madwomanintheattic]

[lazydog]

Also: "companies are recognising uk no-claims now"

Even ICBC will recognise your insurance history, but you need letter(s) from all insurance companies that you used in the UK during the time that you've been claim free, stating in a very specific format that you have had no "at fault" claims during the duration of your policy.

The standard UK proof of % no claims letter won't do, as there's the issue of possibly having protected your no claims level.

You have to have had zero "at fault" accidents for x-number of years.

Sadly some UK insurance companies are stubborn bastards who won't deviate from their standard form-letter, no matter what...

[madwomanintheattic]

can't remember what we supplied... pretty sure it was a standard letter (can't imagine dh was organised enough to arrange anything else lol!) but i know it's improved a bit in the last couple of years - it was much worse when we got here in 2001! i think then only one company was willing to insure us at all

[lazydog]

"More Than" gave us an acceptable letter, so we got proof of the last 4 years, I think it was, but AA Insurance, who we were with before them, just wouldn't (this was in 2005.)

4 years' history was better than nothing, but it still meant that we were initially paying the equivalent of about GBP 1,000 to insure an 8 year old Honda CR-V, 3rd party, with the minimum level of liability that they allowed us to take!

[roary]

Cupboarddoor are you there?

I'd agree with much of what the others say. I think you are getting some useful perspectives from migrants and natives, as it were!

I'd just add that my issue with the winter is not cold, because realistically I think you end up with the same number of days you can't play outside per winter, just for different reasons (here: rain, there: cold below about -25). You can dress for cold until about that temp. It is a long haul though and I would find that frustrating.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with the idea that wages are lower in Canada. I think it depends on your sector. I would get paid a LOT more, for example.

The exchange rate is currently much less favourable than it was but you would still be able to buy a much bigger house for the same amount of money, certainly if you are coming from SE England.

As for car insurance etc I'll leave it to the others although this is always a problem when you migrate anywhere.

It is true that Calgary is not the prettiest - I am actually from Edmonton which I think is much prettier, but have spent a lot of time in Calgary.

[madwomanintheattic]

lol, roary, it's different perspectives, isn't it? i think edmonton is an over-industrialised hole! i'm aware this is a complete nonsense, (and it's got much better shopping than calgary, despite the new mall) and we might even be moving there later this year, so i'm going to have to get over it i've only been twice, and can only remember an industrial skyline - tis ridiculous!

[Cupboarddoor]

Wow! I am overwhelmed with your responses! Thanks so much for all of your views and thoughts, it really helps to get a better perspective on things.

The situation is that DH has been informally offered a role in oil/gas as an engineer which we are pretty sure would turn into a proper offer should he push it with them. Pay looks pretty good compared to here, and my view would be for me to not bother working to start with whilst I settle the DC in. And I get to know a new place to live . At the moment we are thinking of going for a twp and trying out living there for a couple of years, to have a bit of an adventure whilst the kids are young.

DH has been out there working a couple of times, and loves the city and the people, and the opportunities in his sector/field. I'm quite excited at the prospect, but it would mean giving up my (much loved) job in the UK and quite a lot of upheaval for us as a family. But exciting opportunity to go try something different.

I'm thinking I need to go out for a visit before I really make my mind up

[lazydog]

"to not bother working to start with whilst I settle the DC in."

Hmmm... If you decide to move, be a bit careful with that. I'd say that the top reason for people choosing to return to the UK from Canada (at least on britishexpats.com) is that they feel very lonely and isolated, having not had any success making any true friends - only vague acquaintances.

I think that not having to work would be a great start, but whatever you do, don't allow yourself to let your life revolve around the home! Try to get involved in as many clubs, activities, PACs (PTA equivalent) as possible, as soon as possible, so that you build up a good social circle. :)

[Cupboarddoor]

Good advice Lazydog - if this thing happens I plan on joining every club going so that I can actually go out and meeting people and not schlep around the house all day with a toddler... Sounds easy in theory but I suspect it will be more difficult in practice.

I actually would quite like to work part time, but I am not sure how many p/t jobs there are out there. If it's anything like the UK they are few and far between.

[madwomanintheattic]

ah lazydog, i'm a scouts canada leader, a girl guides of canada leader, the secretary of the school council and the scholastic society, run the local book club, and work (supposedly part time but it's been ft for a year due to mat cover/ sickness etc). so i'd probably second the 'get involved' advice . fortunately my dcs are at school.

is it definitely a job in calgary? or is it an in/out in fort mcmoney? dh is an engineer and is looking very keenly at the calgary job scene at the mo - lots happening, definitely a good time for job hunting.

[roary]

Madwoman hee hee, mumsnet now hosts the Battle of Alberta! SEriously, Edmonton is lovely, but the approaches are industrial wastelands and bloody horrible, especially from Calgary and especially in winter when it looks very bleak. But the river valley is really lovely, and a green heart at the city centre (check www.rivervalley.ab.ca/gallery/ this out)

I've been thinking more about cost of living and even discussed it with my parents last night (can you tell I might be a teeny bit homesick). I think that groceries etc are definitely cheaper, but I think maybe it depends on where you are living in the UK. Alberta is hands-down cheaper than SE England.

Cupboard definitely visit! But be aware Alberta can be so lovely in the summer that winter can come as a shock. The Australian guests at our summer wedding couldn't quite believe it ever got cold....

[microserf]

erm, i am not sure my 2 cents will help here, but i lived in calgary as a kid and i thought it was fantastic. i loved all the snow and the real winters and waiting for the chinook winds. winter is pretty intense though, i remember wading to school through snow and plugging in the car at the mall. school was great, i started a french immersion program at my school and loved it. was very sorry to leave but bitterly divorcing parents some family circumstances required it.

also fantastic being close to banff. not that we learned to ski, but still. and banff in summer was also amazing.