What do your bilingual kids (english & whatever) do during their english lessons?

[canella]

we're in Germany - only been here 18 months. dd (9) is totally bilingual german/english and in the last school year started havign english lessons in her timetable. Obviously this is at too basic a level for her (they were counting to 20 this week).

Last year the teacher said she was best off just reading a book or doing her homework but this year the teacher has changed and she insists dd takes part in the class.

we're not happy with this and we've spoken to the head today (phoned to speak to the teacher but she wasnt there and it was the head who answered the phone!didnt plan to take it to the head at the mo!!) - she hadnt thought what dd should do (even tho she knew dd was bilingual!!) but said her and the teacher would have a think about it! but i have 2 other dc who will also go thro the school and another bilingual family have 4 dc so the school need to make a plan for all these kids! (we obviously live in the sticks - i imagine bigger cities would have more bilingual families!)

so what do the rest of your dc do in their english lessons - is it worth me trying to buy some workbooks from the UK for her to do during the lessons?

any advice welcome!

[MmeLindt]

DD has just started German lessons here in Switzerland and tbh, we are just letting her sit in. So far it is not too boring for her - seems to be a lot of songs and a few phrases. She needs practice reading in German anyway. They have to learn vocabulary so it is like a spelling test for her.

I suspect we will do the same when she starts English in a couple of years time (if we are still here).

Tbh, it is good for her self-esteem to have a subject in which she really excels without much effort.

[MmeLindt]

Oh, and how are you and your Rhönhasen doing?

[canella]

thanks for that mmelindt! your kids amaze me - to be trilingual at such a young age is fascinating!

i did let her sit in the class last year and read (she has no trouble reading books in English - reading books like Harry Potter!) and didnt force the issue about her not learning anything new - thought it was such a big transition for her in that first year here to be at school in Germany that maybe it was an easy lesson for her!

but now the opposite is happening to her (and the other 2!) - they are so immersed in german life - they only have 1 family of english speaking friends! most of their day is spent with german speaking friends or watching german tv and altho they all still speak fluent English i'm worried that the German side of their education is so dominant, it would be good for her to be stretched in her English lessons too!

this makes me sound like a pushy parent and normally i'm the benign neglect kind of parent but just think the school could have thought this thro a bit more!

[canella]

PS - me and my Rhoenhasen are doing really well! best decision ever to move here! I'm loving village life, my german is getting better every day, dh is happy at work and with his 8 minute commute to work! kids are totally settled in and have made loads of friends which is so great! and they're all bilingual which i'm loving!

was in Fladungen at the weekend and thought of you! was it your dh's family who came from round there? going to go to the Rhoen Wurstmarkt in Ostheim this weekend!! rock n roll lifestyle for us!

how's things in Geneva? how's ur French!

[MmeLindt]

I agree that the school will have to think of something for her, particularly since she is a good reader already. I know that some of my friends send their DC to English lessons, but they are looking to keep their Englsih at a high standard for when they move back to UK.

Yes, DH's family is from Fladungen, his parents still own a holiday home there. Might go next summer for a week or two. If I do, I will look you up. We can have a MN Rhönhasen meetup.

[Bonsoir]

I think you are quite right to believe that your DD would be better off learning English at her level rather than that of the class.

Can you research a book that she could work from during English lessons? There are some nice English text books published by Galore Park.

[Othersideofthechannel]

Help the teacher (who is not English mother tongue) with pronunciation.

Other than that nothing special.

[canella]

thanks for that Bonsoir - just having a look at some of the books on that website now.

I'm not sure if the other kids catch up in the end with regard to grammer etc but its way off that level at the moment!

mmelindt - no intention of going back to the UK so dont think she needs formal english lessons but think she needs something!

a MN Rhon meetup would be great! promise i'm not a troll! (saw how you got caught up in the troll debarcle at the weekend - totally crazy!)

[Bonsoir]

Realistically I think you are going to have to put together your own curriculum (easy) for your DD and to sell the idea to the school (potentially quite hard).

Good luck!

[Portofino]

Lord I hadn't even thought about this. We've still got Dutch to do first......

[pillowcase]

I have this problem too, and I'm the teacher! I just don't have the time to teach the class and cater for my own DD and a couple of other bilingual kids.

[canella]

portofino - i didnt give it a thought either before we moved here! all the worry was about getting the kids to speak more german - fast forward 18 months and i'm not worried about that anymore! just about improving their english vocab and grammer!

bonsoir - do you mean putting together ideas of topics with worksheets etc that she will do during the lesson and ask the english teacher to supervise her? i wonder if the english teacher's english is actually up to that or if she is only doing the absolute basics! will it be me who's being the "teacher" in this situation?

[canella]

sorry x posts pillowcase - would it help you if the parents of the bilingual kids gave their kids work to do independently?

[Bonsoir]

You mustn't write the curriculum, but you will need to choose and buy the materials.

Portofino - why don't you put your DD in one of Brussels' great bilingual schools? French lycée is supposed to be great (half day in English half day in French)?

[pillowcase]

keep losing posts here aaahhhh, anything longer than 10 words crashes, why???

[Portofino]

Because you have to pay, Bonsoir.....and I live miles away.

[Bonsoir]

It's not that expensive. And you could move! Think of the fab, fab education your DD would get!

[pillowcase]

new trial after deleting cookies......

[MotherMountainGoat]

We're not really in the same position, because the dc go to an international school where they're taught in both languages immersion style, but I know of a number of other people in your situation. It seems to vary hugely according to the teacher's attitude - some allow kids to do their own thing at the back, as long as they're reading an English book, some insist the kids do exactly the same work as everyone else, some 'use' the kids as language assistants for the others, some set extra more challenging work. There's a thread on the subject on Leo.org where a number of bilinguals and parents of bilinguals comment.

My experience of older kids growing up in a German environment (German school and the only English input coming from an English mum or dad, but not both) is that at a certain point they will rebel against English and possibly even stop answering you in English altogether, but will grow out of that in their late teens when they do their (semi-compulsory for middle-class kids) year 11 in the States and English becomes cool again.

I used to be BlauerEngel, by the way. Fancied a less German name...

[MmeLindt]

Canella
From what I have seen of English teachers in Germany , it is highly likely that she will not be up to supervising ie. teaching your DD. The standard is mostly quite poor. Either let her read, if it something that she enjoys, or let her join in. Depending on the teacher, sometimes they like to ask the bilingual pupil to "assist" in class, but be warned - some teachers don't like this, makes them feel udnermined

A friend's DD used to be penalized in English lessons when he used a more complicated grammar form than the class had covered as he shouldn't know that yet.

I believe you aren't a troll. I believe I had a crashcourse in troll spotting :)

[natation]

I don't think Portofino needs to worry yet, I have not yet found a local French Belgian school, other than the ones which do immersion in the curriculum (that's French speakers immersed in English) or Le Verseau (which is fee-paying but public) which teach children English before 3rd secondary at the age of 14. The Lycée Francais does indeed have a good reputation, but not in the most accessible areas of Brussels. Plus no Dutch if doing Fr/Eng which for me is a negative. I may be crazy, but I want our children to speak the country's other main language. Our 5 year old is revelling in the Dutch already "ik will pipi doen" was the first thing she said to me on the first day of Dutch lessons.

Anyway, back to the question, just how many hours of English is the OP's child doing each week? If it's only a couple of hours, I really wouldn't worry about them having to sit through what may be boring for them. It's just one of those things you have to accept for me. One of ours is faced with 2 horus a week English in 2 years time, he will either sit through the lessons, or his only opt-out is ancient Greek, knowing how lazy he can be, I think he'll go with the English. I wouldn't dream of asking his teacher to give him harder work just for him. I don't think it's the school's job to give native level English lessons to our children, we have made the choice to place them in French speaking schools in a country where English is not an official language. It is OUR problem if we don't like the fact that our children are not getting native language English at school, not the school's obligation to provide something just for our children. Just imagine, if you were French or German Spanish, you move your family to the UK and in secondary school French or Spanish or German is obligatory, should the UK school provide a separate curriculum for those native speakers of foreign languages?

Oh and I have pondered for a while over the question of what to do with our 5 year old who has only ever been to French Belgian school, unlike her elder siblings who learned to read and write in English before moving this side of the channel. I didn't need to worry. She has just started to formally learn her letters and phonics in French, ever since she has started to teach herself the same thing in English and is now able to read simple words like "cat" and "dog" in English, all without any effort on my part. As for the elder children, they continue to read and write in English, despite having no formal lessons in it. Our 8 year old reads extremely fluently, books of several hundred pages in English, this despite doing just reception class and Year 1 in the UK.

[frakkinnakkered]

Actually there was a thread for natives of other languages in English schools and the consensus was they should be given harder work and encouraged to take the GCSE/AS/A2 early. That was mostly teachers who do that independently of school policy because they didn't want the children getting bored/demotivated/making trouble and wanted them to get something out of the time in class.

Can the teacher not access material for higher levels? There are loads of free grammar sheets on the web if not. Then later on vocab tests become spelling tests so they're getting the marks and listening comprehension can be a good skill for even native speakers to develop.

It's just the basic boring stuff which is a chore to get through.

[admylin]

Isn't your dd in Year 4 Canella? Next year when she goes to Gymnasium she will have to follow the normal class anyway and she'll have to sit the same tests and do the same lessons to get her grades. Just let her enjoy the 'easy time' now.

From my experience, ds who is totally bilingual and reads at an advanced level in both langauages doesn't get straight A's in English all the time. They have vocab tests (which is like a spelling test for him) and he makes mistakes, that's life! At our Gymnasium if you have 2 spelling mistakes that's a grade 2. You'll also come across grammar that is acceptable for our dc but the clas shasn't learned it yet so it's wrong in a test if our dc use it (yes, believe me, that has happened, they had points taken offfor using grammar that they hadn't covered in class).

One example - dd wrote 'I have a brother', she should have written 'I have got a brother' - a whole point deducted. Ds, one year above was allowed to write I have instead of I have got because it had been explained as an american style of english (I have) in his book.

[Bonsoir]

admylin - I'm afraid that I have a real problem with the sort of example you give of children not being allowed to use more sophisticated grammar and syntax (even vocabulary) than their teacher has taught them, and having points deducted for that.

My DSSs (who are not bilingual, just much better at English than their peers) encounter this quite often. If anything is a disincentive to working hard outside school and spending a large part of their summer holiday on language courses, this is it.

[admylin]

It is a problem, I have to explain to my 2 that we're in this system so we just have to follow it and they have to try their best.

It's unfortunate but there is no point going to school for every little difference - although the I have and I have got one did come up at the parent teacher meeting. We spoke about the fact that English is a constantly changing language anyway and the schools have to set their curriculum and try to teach it to the best level they can, the teacher doesn't have time to mark each test by first looking at the name and saying ok I'll let that one through as he or she is a native speaker.