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Do maintenance payments count both ways?

(25 Posts)
TrafficJunkie Wed 10-May-17 22:17:31

Hi. My partner is soon to move in. I'm a carer to my two autistic kids so I don't work in the usual sense. I currently receive carers allowance topped up with income support, the usual child benefits and child tax credits and full housing and council tax benefits.
We've done a calculator and it says I will lose all my income support, will have to pay about £100 a month for rent and council tax, and there's also a significant drop in the amount of tax credits we would get. Yes we gain his income, but he has maintenance to pay for his own children who don't live with him, and he earns under 10k a year as he's self employed and his working hours vary massively as does his income from week to week.

I don't feel happy about his income having to support his own kids, and effectively my own as well as we'd not have the money to survive otherwise... can anyone help me further?
I could work a little but only for the 4 hours a day whilst the kids are at school but in reality this doesn't always happen as they are often off school and have appointments etc ..... which is why I don't have a job.

We are a bit stuck and confused. It work out that I would lose £140 a month income, plus outgoings would massively increase.

Leatherboundanddown Wed 10-May-17 22:20:09

Have you done the calculator on the CMS website? Legally he can reduce his maintenance payments if he has other children in his household to support but I don't think it is by very much.

If this is something you are thinking of doing I suggest letting your partner's ex know as soon as possible so they know the change is coming and can plan.

AndNowItIsSeven Wed 10-May-17 22:22:53

If your do earns less than 10k and you are a carer then you will still receive maximum tax credits and your HB and council tax shouldn't change much either if at all. All you should lose is your income support.

Akire Wed 10-May-17 22:23:57

140 is £35 week dosnt sound huge amount given he's not paying rent and bills else where. He have to pay least 3x that in the pot to live and eat in a rented room. Sounds like you very much be supporting your kids.
How much is he paying to live now?

Redken24 Wed 10-May-17 22:25:52

cms add your two kids onto his calculation. Maintenance will be reduced but not by much.

TrafficJunkie Wed 10-May-17 22:36:52

He has an informal arrangement with his ex. He pays more than the basic rate that would be set by the cms.
No I suppose it isn't a lot of rent but should I expect him to pay that difference? Currently he pays nothing as he lives with family.

AyeAmarok Wed 10-May-17 22:41:29

Yes, he should pay the difference. Life's not free, he shouldn't begrudge paying such a tiny amount of rent.

KarmaNoMore Wed 10-May-17 22:43:12

... and that is why so many single parents cannot afford to progress their relationships. Honestly OP, if you need that money and you will loose it by him moving in, it may be better for him to stay living with whoever is currently allowing him to live rent free.

You cannot afford to take the commitment to keep him rent free when your income and support can be reduced in such way for the mere act of him moving in. He either helps to make up the difference or stays where he is, you already have too much in your plate.

Akire Wed 10-May-17 22:43:18

Of course you should, he's been lucky living with family for free that's all well and good but it has its drawn backs. If he wants to make a go with you and kids then that's what family set ups are like.

If he can't or he's not willing don't do it until he's earning more. 10k on mim wage is only about 24h a week he could double that. It's not your job to subsides him by A losing benefits and B losing income that you and your kids need.

You don't want be in position where he moves in with you pays you nothing like he does now, you then pay all his costs and forgo benefits. What would you be gaining? Not unless he's going look after your kids son his part time hours so you can work full time or something similar.

RandomMess Wed 10-May-17 22:47:39

You need to have a very frank discussion about finances. The reality may be that you can't afford for him to move in until he is earning more!

He would certainly need to pay in more than you would lose as you also have his food and utility costs to cover...

Ellisandra Wed 10-May-17 23:07:01

I find it morally repugnant that CMS reduces maintenance for his own kids, because he moves in with someone else's. And morally repugnant that people suggest it.

My fiancé will move in with me. His daughter will get a lower maintenance grant because of his increased household income. I earn more than him so I will make up the shortfall. I think it's fine in a partnership for both parties to make up for a loss caused by their being together.

He should pay you enough rent to make up for your lost income and cover the additional costs of him being there - food, utilities, council tax.

TrafficJunkie Thu 11-May-17 08:05:24

Ok there are some interesting points here. I think I'll have a chat with him about it all.

Redken24 Thu 11-May-17 09:50:43

Ellis - totally with you there. Not sure how they worked it out.

TrafficJunkie Thu 11-May-17 10:01:13

I think I've probably not been very clear!
DP is totally willing to pay whatever he needs to pay, I'm just a bit weird about him paying for things because I don't want to feel like he's supporting my kids.

Akire Thu 11-May-17 10:14:28

WEll if he didn't pay to make up your rent and pay towards bills and food bills your kids will be supporting him. Should your kids have less incase he feels put upon?

ShakingAndShocked Thu 11-May-17 10:30:35

'I find it morally repugnant that CMS reduces maintenance for his own kids, because he moves in with someone else's. And morally repugnant that people suggest it.'

Amen to that. I think it's obscene and never fail to be amazed by women (not suggesting this is you OP! ) who want their new partner to reduce CM for their children - literally cannot get my head around it. Likewise I'd run a mile from a bloke who wanted to support his kids less, that classic thing of when someone tells you who they are then listen applies hugely IMHO.

OP Of course he has to contribute to the household and please don't under any circumstances jeopardise your finances and security (& that of your children) and increase your bills (council tax will go up etc) for what would be, bluntly put and if he wasn't contributing, a cocklodger. And YY to PP vis even if on minimum wage he can only be working part time if that is his actual income? I'd be very wary about entwining my life and finances with a grown man who lives with his parentshmm and doesn't graft... And living with parents AND only a part time job (unless he has genuine issues preventing full time work?) does not scream of a grafter to me.

I would also be desperately uncomfortable with someone reducing their child support to their children in order to further their own personal choices - kids come first once you've chosen to have them and they don't suddenly need less just because Daddy (or Mummy) decides to move in with a.n.other.

tigerlife Thu 11-May-17 10:34:50

I'd sit down and discuss the finances in detail with him, with calculations showing how it would affect both your finances. I was in your situation a few years back and tbh I don't think I would have moved my partner in, in your circumstances. You will lose out on a lot, your finances will be more complicated (he will have to disclose his income to get tax credits/housing benefit which can be messy and delayed for self employed people) and there will be an impact from the increased living costs/impact on having another adult in the home. You need to take into account other bits that you'll lose financially (not sure but possibly free school meals, prescriptions, charity grants like family fund). Will he want his dc staying for overnight visits? That would be a change to the dynamic that is really difficult for dc with autism to cope with.

DH has a good income and he is happy to support my dc (which is just as well as we lost all benefits except carer's allowance when we moved in together). The government expects a partner to support the children of the family regardless of whether they are biological children or not - I think that is quite right as that is part of taking on the role of a committed partner - but your DP will struggle to do that on his wage and I think you'll all end up missing out financially.

TrafficJunkie Thu 11-May-17 10:35:14

No, I don't want him to reduce his maintenance payments for a second. I wondered if it would somehow be taken into account with a claim, as a sort of disregard from total income. For example instead of him earning for arguments sake £100 a week, it would only count as £60 a week because £40 of it goes to maintenance - I wondered.
Like they disregard income support as income for tax credits purposes.

Havingahorridtime Thu 11-May-17 10:35:57

If he is only earning £10k he can't possibly be working full time so the simple solution would be for him to work more hours or for you to work at a time when he is home to look after your children. If he isn't prepared to look after them then perhaps you shouldn't be moving in together.

ShakingAndShocked Thu 11-May-17 10:36:15

OP I don't want to piss on your parade but am very very struck by the very limited income and the living with parents things.

How long have you been together and do you know why his own finances are pretty dire and why he IS living with his parents? My 22 year old DS earns more than that part time working in a bar in Spain (there to learn language for year after finishing degree) and fully supports himself even if only in a houseshare.

How old is DP?

TrafficJunkie Thu 11-May-17 10:37:02

He's 32.

gamerchick Thu 11-May-17 12:20:36

I think maybe you should go with the mindset that If he moves in with you and your kids he has to be willing to take you all on financially.

I lost everything when me and the husband did the permanent thing. Me, 3 kids (one with asd) and no CM from their bio dad. Tax credits went to zero.

You have to be sure about this before you do it because going backwards is hard. On the plus him being here meant I could find a couple of part time jobs around his hours. It can work.

Ellisandra Thu 11-May-17 20:18:26

He needs to work out what he wants more - part time self employed, low income, live with his parents...
Or develop his business / get a supplementary job / totally different job, and afford to move in with his girlfriend.

KarmaNoMore Thu 11-May-17 23:59:03

OP, I'm sorry, but he is too old to be living as a dependent child, you will be getting a cocklodger if you move him in.

RainbowsAndUnicorn Tue 16-May-17 17:38:47

I don't get why you don't want him to support your children? Given you are not, who do you think should?

With just a household salary of £10k either he needs to look for employed work, up the SE work or ensure he is home so that you can take on a job around his.

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