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FIL house deeds

(24 Posts)
pinkDEpanter Thu 27-Oct-16 18:02:27

Hi, first time posting, in a nutshell...

My MIL died and my FIL is trying to put my DW on the house deeds, he has his reasons, mostly to do with when he dies he wants to know the property will be in safe hands (her siblings aren't great with responsibility and money, they're aware and ok with the plan etc)

He has spoken to solicitors but they want nothing to do with it due to no money changing hands so there is no money to gain commission from.

Is there a route we need to take? My FIL is hard of hearing and trying to deal with this and getting nowhere. Myself and DW have always rented so have little knowledge of mortgages.

Any advice/help would be appreciated smile

atticusclaw2 Thu 27-Oct-16 18:07:18

That won't be why they don't want anything to do with it. Solicitors don't work on commission they (we) work on a time spent basis. It is more likely to be that there are other issues (probably around tax and transactions at an undervalue).

You need to find a better solicitor. Where in the country are you?

SpotTheDuck Thu 27-Oct-16 18:10:17

Solicitors don't work on commission, so I think there's been some confusion there.

I don't know why the solicitors don't want to do the transfer - possibly fil didn't understand or hear properly when they explained to him?

All that he needs to do is choose a solicitor (ask locally or on here for recommendations) and then explain he wants to transfer the property to the joint names of him and his daughter.

Solicitors will take it from there.

atticusclaw2 Thu 27-Oct-16 18:11:33

Could it be that your FIL didn't like what he was told about inheritance tax/deprivation of assets etc?

MissTified Thu 27-Oct-16 18:14:56

You mention mortgages, can you expand on that? Is the house mortgaged or do you intend to mortgage it?

You also mention FIL is hard of hearing, he will still need to instruct a solicitor himself.

Your difficulty will be nothing to do with commission and everything to do with your FIL being potentially vulnerable and giving away his, presumably, biggest asset.

However if he instructs his own solicitor and you instruct yours then each solicitor can take care of their own client's interests and instructions without any conflicts arising.

HappyCamel Thu 27-Oct-16 18:16:27

Huge deprivation of assets issues if FIL later needs residential care. Can't he just assign it to her in his will?

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Oct-16 18:18:23

My mum was looking into putting her house in trust recently and her solicitor told her that should she go into a nursing home the council would still probably try to take the house to pay for her care and get the trust overturned as it was obviously deprivation of assets. The solicitor refused to do it, even though he would have been paid.

pinkDEpanter Thu 27-Oct-16 18:41:23

I genuinely think FIL has misheard or doesn't quite understand what they're saying then (he's stubborn with the deafness smile) hoping I didn't offend anyone.

The house is paid completely, so we assumed it was an easy thing to just add names. We were looking into buying the property that we are currently in (now on standby) so the worry is her name on his deeds could cause us issues?

We are going there tomorrow to look through the paperwork with him, he does seem completely perplexed, MIL only died just over a month ago but he has health worries too so is he worrying he needs to get things sorted. We are trying to tell him to take his time and that there is no rush but I think he needs to be busy.

I'm so sorry for sounding so silly, I just literally and obviously, have no idea what we are talking about

pinkDEpanter Thu 27-Oct-16 18:43:00

And thank you so much to everyone who has replied.

I completely agree, he is vulnerable, we genuinely have his best interests at heart but with him being very recently widowed it must look slightly suspect too

CheshireDing Thu 27-Oct-16 18:55:19

OP you can do it yourselves, as long as you fill in the correct forms for the Land Registry and it's a Transfer for "no consideration" (no money is changing hands).
You need the following forms:-
FR1
TR1
ID1
DL Form
If you Google "land registry FR1 Form" you can print it off and complete it (you can then do this for each form).
You only need the FR1 if FIL only has the old deeds and it's not already registered at Land Registry
You need 2 ID1 Forms (one for FIL and one for your Wife).
You need to send all the completed forms, the photographic certified ID, Death Cert for MIL and the relevant deeds (if it is not already registered) to the Land Registry.
I can't comment on the deprivation of assets though as that's not my area, likewise whether that is the right thing for your Family and FIL etc to do.

ImperialBlether Thu 27-Oct-16 19:08:57

I don't understand why he wants her on the deeds and doesn't just leave a Will outlining what he wants to happen if he died.

Is your wife going to inherit the entire house herself?

pinkDEpanter Thu 27-Oct-16 19:14:23

Technically she would be yea, she's then got to empty it (he's a hoarder) and then sell it and split the money equally between all siblings.

Is the will enough? It's not important to put her name on deeds then?

That's great info about the land registry, thank you

CheshireDing Thu 27-Oct-16 19:29:33

Is he puts the house in his will solely to her then fine, she doesn't need to be on the deeds.

Issues could arise depending on the total value of his estate though (in terms of inheritance tax) and also if he does need care and the property is still just in his name the care home/similar will start proceeding to encourage the sale to get their fees (assuming these can't be paid by you/the other siblings etc). If the property is in FIL and Wife's name then the home could only claim the percentage which is in FIL's name, although (it used to be and you would need to check) that if the property was transferred and then care was needed within 7 years the full value of the property could still be claimed (rather than just the percentage left in FIL's name for example).

Hope that makes sense hmm

Mumofttwins Thu 27-Oct-16 19:37:22

When he does his will, he can state how it's to be divided up. Your DW would not even need to do anything as the Solicitor will share any balance after fees

MissTified Thu 27-Oct-16 19:44:43

If its his intention for all the children to benefit from the sale proceeds then a Will is sufficient. If he wants your DW to be in charge of dealing with everything when he dies then appointing her as executor will do that.

Your DW being on the deeds of an unmortgaged property won't affect a mortgage application.

If your FIL is stressed and confused its not really the time to be making these kinds of decisions and any solicitor will want to be sure he understands all the implications.

If he's worried about potential care home fees he can put the property into a trust for the benefit of all the children. If its overturned by the local authority later then not much has been lost really, a small legal fee. Comparaed to the potential cost of care fees....

He has many options but it sounds like he needs to be in a better place to understand them.

Your DW could probably benefit from understanding the options too. If you xan find a STEP qualified solicitor in your area it will be worth paying for an hour of their time to talk it all through.

atticusclaw2 Fri 28-Oct-16 06:27:03

You really both (you and DW together and then FIL) need to get legal advice. It is correct that the transfer could be overturned if your FIL needs care.

Please don't try to do it yourself for the sake of a few hundred pounds. Get it done properly with proper advice about the potential ramifications.

There are also issues around him wanting to gift half to your DW but then say that she has to sell the property and split it three ways. It's not a straightforward scenario.

Gingernaut Fri 28-Oct-16 06:31:24

If he and she share the title as joint tenants, then when either of them dies, the property reverts to the survivor bypassing any will.

I suspect that's what he's aiming for.

www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/overview

LeftRightUpDown Fri 28-Oct-16 06:47:16

I agree with Gingernaut. My sister and I are tenants in common with our mum for her house.

When our dad was diagnosed with cancer they changed to tenants in common. Dad then left his half to my sister and I.

atticusclaw2 Fri 28-Oct-16 06:52:03

But he then wants to specify what happens to the whole property once he has gone.
So effectively he's giving it (to avoid care fees or IHT) and then trying to take it back to redistribute it.

It's not straight forward and it needs a solicitor.

MimsyPimsy Fri 28-Oct-16 11:23:13

We were looking into buying the property that we are currently in (now on standby) so the worry is her name on his deeds could cause us issues?
If your wife's name goes no the deeds, and then you buy your own property in England/Wales/NI, there may be an issue with paying a higher rate of stamp duty on your own property. Someone else may know more about this.

HappyCamel Sat 29-Oct-16 04:18:08

Yes that's true. Stamp duty surcharge is 3% on second homes.

greenfolder Wed 02-Nov-16 06:45:23

Gosh. Don't put her name on the deeds if you want to buy somewhere else. Yous end up paying 3 times the stamp duty!

LisaMed1 Fri 04-Nov-16 11:31:43

If your FIL needs to go into a care home, how will it be funded? If the house has had another name added to the deeds then the council may well think it was to cheat paying for the care home and insist that he is self funded anyway.

perditalost Sun 06-Nov-16 09:50:58

This is not a good idea:

capital gains tax when you sell eventually on any increase in value between now and then
deprivation of assets
second home owner taxation if you buy ever
possible loss of any government 1st time buyer incentives if you ever buy

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