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this is insane

(81 Posts)
ladyjadey Tue 27-Nov-12 20:09:49

I am a single mum of two. I work 30 hours a week. I have been with my bf for over 2 years and we want to live together. He also has 2 kids who don't live with him. If we live together it seems I will lose all my tax credits because of his wage. He is far from wealthy because he pays a large maintenance payment every month, 600 pounds. Idepend on childcare to go to work which costs between 500 and 800 plus a month, dependingon school hols etc. There is no way I can pay this, a mortgage, bills and everything else on my own without my tax credits. He cannot afford to either.So I am better off as a single mother until my children grow up? Surely that can't be right!

Flibbertyjibbet Wed 28-Nov-12 11:35:44

So if you get together, he wants it to be in a bigger house so that his kids can come and stay.

But the only contribution he wants to make to this bigger house is the equity from his own rent-and-mortgage-free home. The bigger house will be paid for by the money you currently pay as rent, ie £600 per month. Then presumably bills etc will be split between you on this bigger house, which may or may not mean that his utility bills go down.

So he will be living in a bigger house at possibly no extra cost to himself at all, while you will be far worse off because you will lose tax credits.

I understand why you are frustrated. But honestly, the fault is not with the tax credits system, its with your boyfriend for expecting you to subsidise his bigger house.

You say he earns a decent whack, so why is he not meeting half the mortgage on this bigger property, after all he will be benefitting from it. This kind of set up would also need careful setting out in legal agreements as to just who is entitled to what proportions of any larger property if you split.

QuickLookBusy Wed 28-Nov-12 11:40:43

I agree with Flibberty.

Your DP needs to make more of a contribution, somehow.

As it stands you both get a bigger house, but you are losing income. He needs to give you half of that loss, so it's all fair and square.

aPirateInaPearTree Wed 28-Nov-12 11:44:47

he needs to go back through the csa. work out what he officially has to pay to her. Then so as they don't miss out be forthcoming and have it in writing that he will provide extras. like shoes, trips. It doesn't matter about joint custody, money wise, it matters about how often he has them, having them more than 52 nights a year will be taken into consideration in the amount the csa order him to pay.

In fact he can go to the csa website to get an idea.

But, if he can't bear to go back on what was agreed, then he will have to pay have the new mortgage. Yes he would be putting in alot more, but unless YOU are paying the mortgage, he effectively won't have a roof over his head. He needs to contribute to the mortgage. There will be savings because you will now only have one bill of everything.

ladyjadey Wed 28-Nov-12 11:46:39

Actually childcare vouchers are available from my employer and that is a damn good idea, that could help matters a lot.
As for how things would be split then some of that is my fault because in my opinion it is a big ask from me, I think he is doing me a huge service taking on my two kids. As things stand he can come and go as he pleases, his life is his own. He doesn't have to look after my kids, I love him for doing it but I think its a lot to ask for him to pay for them too. In my view the person who benefits most from us living together is me.

mumblechum1 Wed 28-Nov-12 11:47:54

Are you receiving maintenance from your children's father?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 28-Nov-12 12:00:26

"I think he is doing me a huge service taking on my two kids. "

Being grateful is not a good basis on which to form a long-term relationship hmm You seem to be saying that his presence is all you require and you're prepared to pay for the privilege?

ladyjadey Wed 28-Nov-12 12:01:28

My kids have different dads, one involved one not. One pays one doesn't, I get 39 a week for the eldest but when I went to CSA for youngest her father threatened to try take her away from me so I cried off. He doesn't have anything to do with her at all and she calls dp daddy.
Dp accepts that we will have to work it out between us somehow, he is not unreasonable. I just didn't want to ask more of him than I already do sad

Thankyou all for your sane and reasonable advice

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 28-Nov-12 12:02:32

You need to sit down as a couple and work not only out the costs of this new living arrangement but what's coming into the pot and who contributes. Full open book in other words. All couples have to plan their finances or things get left unsaid, assumptions are made and one person invariably gets stitched up and feeling resentful. You talk about a 'big ask' so I'm guessing you've not had that conversation. It's essential....

DuelingFanjo Wed 28-Nov-12 12:06:40

" in my opinion it is a big ask from me, I think he is doing me a huge service taking on my two kids. "

but he's not taking on any responsibility for your kids. being there is not really taking on responsibility for them.

You are suggesting that he move into a house rent/mortgage free and you end up paying all the mortgage yourself. Why would you want to do this to yourself? Why would he expect you to do this?

You definitely shouldn't move in with him, nor get a joint mortgage with him if he's not prepared to pay half of it.

Would he be paying bills?

In your first post you say "There is no way I can pay this, a mortgage, bills and everything else on my own" are you planning on paying for bills and everything else on your own once has has moved in?

ladyjadey Wed 28-Nov-12 12:11:04

Yes he would pay bills and he has not refused to help with anything

DuelingFanjo Wed 28-Nov-12 12:11:56

but he's not prepared to pay the mortgage?
You have asked him to pay half and he has said yes?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 28-Nov-12 12:14:23

So what is the 'big ask' that you're frightened to make? This man is now your partner... hopefully life partner. You have to share all the costs of your new household and give the members of that household priority - financial and otherwise - over previous commitments. Life changes, circumstances change, priorities change and even divorce courts and the CSA recognise that. His ex is probably going to have to get that job after all....

shrimponastick Wed 28-Nov-12 12:19:13

i hear what you are saying OP. BUT if you are planning on living together with your DP then you share the costs. Even if it seems unfair that he is paying for xX and you are paying for YY - that isjust how it should be.

When I moved in with DP (now DH) - He had equity in the house, I had an equal amount of ££ from the sale of my house. I worked part time, and obv gave up my tax credits etc.

I don't work now, DH is happy with this, as am I. I don't consider that DH is having to take responsibility for my DS. His F pays a small maintenance ? to me, but in reality we (me and DH) support DS.

At first I felt slightly weird about it, having been very independent, but it doesn't bother me a jot now.

My DH also pays a good maintenance out to his XP (who also doesn't and won't work!) for his DC.

So he is supporting two whole families. That is just the way it is.

Are you sure that you and your DP have discussed this properly? Or are you jumping to conclusions that he won't want to be 'responsible' for your DC? In the real world, in a partnership things have to be shared to work successfullly.

Hope you sort it out.

mumblechum1 Wed 28-Nov-12 12:22:43

The OP's dp is making a contribution though, he's putting all of the equity from his current home into this one.

OP the two of you need to take some advice from a lawyer as to setting up a trust deed reflecting the fact that his contribution is by way of capital, yours is by way of maintenance payments. It would be a good idea to do a cohabitation agreement so that if you split, neither of you ends up being ripped off.

shrimponastick Wed 28-Nov-12 12:32:40

Yes mumblechum but the DP also needs to contribute to the new mortgage payments by the sounds of it. OP doesn't have sufficient coming in to pay the mortgage alone, and cover the costs of the childcare etc due to the loss in tax credits.

DP could still pay towards the mortgage, and with his ££ being put into the property as a deposit, 'own' more proportionately.

ladyjadey Wed 28-Nov-12 13:17:46

I know we will have to talk, he will have to contribute more because I won't be able to pay the mortgage alone. He is adamant he won't reduce his maintenance, he doesn't see why his kids should lose out financially and I don't want them to (although it does grate that ex spends it on designer handbags and won't buy the kids clothes). Childcare vouchers will be a big help and I may need to go full time as it wouldn't make a huge difference to price of childcare but will give me a bit more to play with. Also next year the youngest should get some free hours (unless I lose entitlement to that too!) But my biggest worry is the school hols, august cost me a grand this year! But he hasn't said he wont pay towards mortgage. There is a lot to work out I think

ladyjadey Wed 28-Nov-12 13:19:05

Oh and we were planning on having something in paper about who owns what so we are not up the creek should we split

QuickLookBusy Wed 28-Nov-12 13:52:42

Just had a thought, are there any Key worker houses in your area? I think you'd qualify as you're a nurse and I think they are usually a bit cheaper than other houses.

Flibbertyjibbet Wed 28-Nov-12 13:54:47

'He is adamant he won't reduce his maintenance, he doesn't see why his kids should lose out financially'

but its ok for his kids to lose out financially when he moves to the bigger house that his kids can come and stay over in? I get it that he brings the equity from his own house which will enable purchase of a bigger house for all of you. But its NOT ok to expect you to take on the mortgage payments of the additional borrowing, by yourself.

Actually, if you are working 30 hours a week, would you be able to get a mortgage of £600 a month, or are his earnings being taken into account for deciding how much extra to borrow, in which case he should actually be paying it as well! If he only brings the equity from his own smaller house, then you in effect would be subsidising his lifestyle at the expense of your own children.

If I were you I'd get a mortage of my own, and move myself and my own kids from rented into bought, and then you will have some equity eventually too.

Flibbertyjibbet Wed 28-Nov-12 14:24:55

Sorry 2nd para should have started 'its ok for YOUR kids to lose out financially due to the mortgage for the bigger house.

DuelingFanjo Wed 28-Nov-12 14:41:21

"The OP's dp is making a contribution though, he's putting all of the equity from his current home into this one. "

so what he and the OP need to do is get a more realistic mortgage which one of them can afford alone if they need to rather than using all his money to pay a deposit for a larger house and then expect her to pay it all by herself.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 28-Nov-12 15:23:40

" he doesn't see why his kids should lose out financially "

Hang on a minute. If you had one child and spent lots of money on them.... and then you deliver twins..... would you say the twins have to go short so that the eldest doesn't lose out financially? Or would you say all three children now get an equal share? The problem here is that you are going to be a couple but you don't see his children as yours and he doesn't see your children as his.... not financially at any rate.

I think you'd better stay single tbh because I don't think either of you have really thought this through.

ladyjadey Wed 28-Nov-12 15:46:01

But ultimately my two are not his children. His will always be his number one priority as mine will be mine. It isn't that we aren't prepared to work this between us but the whole idea was about me having something concrete for my money instead of paying rent, not taking money off his kids. If we can't afford a mortgage together then we will stay as we are, I don't think he is unreasonable in that, why should any of our kids lose out as a result of our relationship? We would both be very unfair if that were the case. It is different if we make our own sacrifices but his kids don't need a new house, the one they have is more than fine!

QuickLookBusy Wed 28-Nov-12 15:56:57

I actually agree with you Lady. I think it's a bit mean of people to suggest he gives his dc less money, it's really not fair on them. The fact he isn't willing to do that, makes me think he's a good man.

How old are your dc? From what you said about one being entitled to free hours, are they at nursery? If so does that mean in a couple of years they'll be at school and your child care bill will be less?

DuelingFanjo Wed 28-Nov-12 16:01:05

I think you have to separate the 'rent/mortgage' from his kids needs and your kids needs. Naturally all the kids need to be financially supported but why should your kids suffer because he won't pay to live somewhere. Clearly the arrangement where he paus a deposit but then doesn't pay anything monthly to live in the house isn't going to be fair on your children as you will be taking up the slack and that leaves your kids without the basics.

Don't live in a place you can't afford to pay for alone.

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