Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.
Name not on deeds. Help!(23 Posts)
Ok, here goes, it's a long one i'm afraid. I know I have been an idiot...
Ten years ago, myself and DP bought a house together and shared all legal costs, deposit etc. We then refurbished the house and again, this was all at a joint cost.
When our DS was 3 we briefly split up. I then (stupidly) removed my name of the deeds and went to live elsewhere. Although the house had increased in value I did not ask for, nor receive a penny. (This was before the property crash, when prices were high) I wanted to keep things cordial for the sake of our child and did not want us to argue over money - he has none.
After a year or so, I moved back in and a couple of years later, we subsequently had a DD.
The house has fallen in value and there is no equity. There could even be marginal negative equity as DP remortgaged the house at some point, to pay off some debts.
I have been continually asking to remortgage and for me to go back on the mortgage/deeds. He refused and said it was his his house. This obviously set alarm bells ringing, especially as I earn more and pay bills/food/childcare/ everything - these monthly costs are more than the mortgage. However, the mortgage comes out of his bank account.
Reluctantly, he agreed to a meeting with the mortgage consultant. Unfortunately, due to the scale of his debts and the decrease in his salary, he does not even qualify for his existing mortgage, so cannot remortgage and has to remain on the standard variable rate. My salary apparently is not high enough as they need to consider my other mortgage (I bought a house in a different town when we split up, which is now rented out).
They did mention that I may be able to put my name on the title deeds - if he agrees.
My question is, if he does agree to put my name on the deeds, will this give me the same rights as if i was on the mortgage? I think it's possible I could persuade him to put my name on. (Things are not great between us and I can see us splitting up. We bicker constantly over this issue as it really plays on my mind and I am scared about the lack of security my DC and I have. He takes great delight in telling me this is his house and if we do split up I can get out).
I want to stay in this house as it is near my childcare, the school, my work and our friends. I do not want to relocate to my house in the other town as I do not want to uproot the children etc and have no problem in paying this mortgage if he leaves.
What, if anything can I do? Can I claim a beneficial interest if he tries to evict us and what does this mean exactly?
Why do you want to be beholden to a property (and mortgage) in negative equity? You must be mad!
Claim a benefificial interest in a worthless property? Good luck to you. Can I act for you? Clients who want to spend money hand over fist for no discernable benefit are always my favourites!!
If I were you I'd sell your other property and use the proceeds for a deposit on a new property, in your sole name, near to where you are now.
Yes, I totally see your point that it may be worthless in monetary terms, but what is important is that my DC are very settled, it is close to work, school etc and the house has been completely refurbished to just how I wanted it. There is nothing in this area similar that I could afford without the hassle of refurbishment-again.
The negative equity would only be about £1k, and quite possibly nothing at all.
We are still together, attending Relate so I was thinking more long term what I could do to stay in the house if things didnt work.
However, I accept what your saying and I will consider it. Thanks for responding.
Are you saying you want a court to allow you and the DCs residency in this house, while you ExP leaves and arranges alternative housing for himself, even though you have an investment property in another town?
Sounds a bit cake and eating it
Sorry, that was a bit judgy and not very helpful!
Would you consider selling the other house, and with that as a deposit ask the bank if they will then accept you as a sole morgagee on the property. In effect you stbex will 'sell' it to you.
Well, my other house is 3 hours away (in good traffic) so not quite as simple. I relocated to his home town and now our DC are settled here.
DP earns quite a bit less than me and I have, quite rightly, been paying out much more than him. Our childcare alone is more than the mortgage.
Anyway, judging by these responses it looks like I am in the wrong so I will have to reconsider. I am concerned that selling isn't that easy in this economic climate and I am loathe to uproot the DC until I am in a position to buy. He has already point blank refused to move out and to let us stay in the property for 6 months or so if (when) we do split, whilst I sort myself out. I should add that one of our DC suffers from an ongoing illness and is quite poorly at times, hence further reluctance to move.
I do appreciate the replys (if somewhat harsh). Thought I was in AIBU by mistake!
Talk it through with a family law solicitor, as there seem lots of options. I certainly wouldnt be the one to leave the property with the DCs as that is one of the things advised when couples are separating.
Good luck with the Relate thing!
Advice as in dont leave the property yourself with DCs.
That sentence can be read both ways!
MOS ...Are you saying she shouldnt stay in the marital home with the DCs?
I am as this is the first thing that is advised (except with DV of course)
Well the family home....at least until she gets legal advice. Its her home too morally, but Op has not been very canny re removing her name from the deeds. She needs to stay put and look at selling her existing house to get a deposit for this house, as I said originally, it looks the only option if she wants to stay in the home.
Its a very bad position to be in if you are unmarried, not joint tenants, and not getting on with your partner!
However I have copied this :
In certain circumstances you may be able to apply for an occupation order to enable you to remain in the property for a period of time
or you may be able to argue that you have a beneficial interest. Looking at the title deeds of the property alone will not necessarily provide the answer to who is entitled to live at the property or benefit financially from it.
There are two ways in which you may be able to establish a financial interest in a property registered in your partners sole name.
(a) If you have made a payment towards the purchase of the property(either to the deposit or to mortgage payments) and can show that you would not have done this had you known that you would have no rights to that property, then you may be able to establish that you have a financial
claim and may be able to get some money back when the property is sold, or come to an agreement in order to get your money out of the property earlier.
(b) If you entered into an agreement, arrangement or understanding that the
property was to be shared and you relied on that agreement to your detriment the court may decide that you should be entitled to some financial benefit from the property. This agreement does not necessarily have to be written down although this does help and can include contributions that you have made to home improvements or looking after the family. The court will decide how much money you should get and can order that the property
be sold immediately. To make your claim you will need to apply to the County Court under section 14 of theTrusts of Land and Appointment of
Trustees Act 1996 (TOLATA). This is a complicated civil law procedure and you should seek expert legal advice. You can register your potential interest in the property by registering a caution on the legal title of the property by contacting the Land Registry.
The full article is
Sell your other house and buy something near to this one. Leave him with sole responsibility for this house it's mortgage and it's negative or little equity.
You remortgage you taking on his debts why would you do that? Makes no sense
It's not so much being in the wrong. He has a house. He won't be able to get another mortgage.
You have another house - presumably you can sell it and have a deposit to buy one close to where you are now. You could rent in the mean time.
Us family lawyers look at both the money side of things and the emotional side. Financially you stand to gain nothing of intrinsic value. It would cost you thousands. Therefore taking him to court for a transfer doesn't make sense.
Also I am quite sure that a court wouldn't settle the house on you on a Children Act application when you could buy a house from your own means (I assume).
Emotionally, you have a child with this man. If you drag him through the courts, do you think that you'd be able to co-parent any better..... or will it be a lot worse? These types of proceedings can be emotionally draining, so you should only embark upon them if you have no other option.
You won't be able to get an occupation order (unless there's something you're not telling us) and even if you do. it's just a stop gap until you can make alternative arrangements.
Thanks for further responses.
I did not realise how difficult it would be to claim an interest in the property. I agree the best option seems to be to cut my losses and let it go.
MOS, why the ? Genuine question? I paid half of the Stamp Duty/Legal Fees/Deposit. I also paid half of the refurbishment costs. Additionally, my parents bought the new kitchen. All of which can be proved as I am anal about keeping receipts, bank statements etc.
You'll Be Waiting, no not married, but I have lived in this property for 9 out of the 10 years he has, plus during our year apart, frequently stayed over as we were trying to work things out. I should mention, that during this year, he barely earned anything (self employed) and I helped him financially as I did not wish the father of my child to lose his home.
I paid the legal costs to remove my name (so I could obtain mortgage for new home) and did not take a penny even though the house was worth about 30k more than it is now. (plus he had not remortaged at that point to clear his debts, so we had equity).
When we reconciled we discussed me going back onto the mortgage but agreed that as we were getting married this was pointless.
Wedding was delayed due to second pregnancy. When I went on Maternity Leave, DP lost his job, so we accrued debts. Upon my return to work and him securing a new (lower paid) job, we concentrated on paying off debts etc, rather than arranging the wedding.
Everytime we quarrel, I get the "it's my house so you and the kids can leave" threat. Ok, this is technically true, but morally???
So I started to request that my name to added to the deeds. This opened up a can of worms as he is very set against it, as it's 'his house'. As I said before, he may pay the mortgage but I pay childcare, sports clubs, household bills, food, holiday, car expenses, etc, which are substantially greater (more than double). He is still paying off his debts. He did not stop spending when he was out of work. This left me feeling very vulnerable and frantically trying to get my name back on, just for the hassle of not having to move out if/when we seperate.
My tenants still have a 9 month contract so cannot sell immediately, even if I could find a buyer, but yes, I could put the house up for sale. In all honesty, I am able to transfer offices with work and could move back into my house with our DC and be closer to my family and friends. Housing is less expensive so I could reduce my hours, which would be a huge help as a lone parent. This would be financially and emotionally easier on me. He is brilliant with the children though and they idolise him, so I just could not do this to them or him.
Rentals in the area where we currently live are much more expensive than the mortgage (is this common?) and I would struggle to afford them, hence having to move away from our childcare, school and childrens friends.
I did suggest that he could give me a tenancy agreement, I could pay him rent, equivalent to his mortgage (and HE could move into rented accommodation) until I have sold my house and am in a position to buy. This was so I dont have to move our children (one disabled) twice. I thought this was a reasonable request, he didn't and judging by some of the responses on here maybe it wasn't? Everything just seems to be one sided, in his favour.
Anyway, I am reflecting on what has been said here. I know I have been stupid, hence my new nickname, but you live and learn I guess!
him becoming landlord to you is complex - mortgage company wont like it as you wont be paying market rent.
to change mortgage to buy to lethe has to show he getting 125 % of mortgage , etc
far too complex.
can see your point about haivng put money in but you did take your name off - he could say that was you agreeing everythig was his.
disabeld - depends on the SN - has house been adpted for his SN?
sneezecakesmum perhaps you would kindly direct me to the part where I apparently indicated that meant that she should not stay in the home with the children?
means just that, CONFUSED!
Collaborate has summed it up so much better than me. I just fail to see why anyone would be fighting to take on a debt which is how I read the OP.
I agree with MOS and Collaborate - if there is neg equity, the last thing you want is to be saddled with it!
Perhaps he feels this way you both have a house whereas if you change things, he will have barely anything and no home for his children to stay in.
You seem very focussed on money and it seems you begrudge him being the lower earner.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.