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Sister's ExP lied to get Interim Residency Order!!!

(29 Posts)
Mummy369 Thu 15-Oct-09 21:08:05

Very long, so sorry..

My sister is in bits!! ExP took daughter for pre-arranged access visit last Thursday morning and refused to return her. Sister and both DC ill all last week with chest infections and off school. ExP rang school and told them DC home alone in the dark (complete lie), they called child protection who went round to house 6 hours later hmm Threatened sis with "WE HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE YOUR CHILDREN AWAY FROM YOU!" in front of 7 yr old DS! Took photos of messy house, dirty washing and washing-up not done (big deal - ill all week, what do they expect?) Social Services went round Friday morning - sis scared stiff and wouldn't let them in, they went away. She spent weekend cleaning up and then Sunday morning ExP phones and says he's not bringing DD back. Several police and emergency social services phone calls later and no way of getting DD back on weekend. Monday morning ring social services for advice to get DD back - offered 3-day 'call-back', also visit school for answers, and see solicitor pm who advised sis to apply for Interim Res. order but need SS to sign letter for judge - they faf around for 2 days and wednesday afternoon say they are not visiting sis 'til monday and won't sign letter to judge 'til then. Tonight sis gets hand-delivered letter thru door - ExP got Em. res. order based on his lies! angry angry

Help - what do we do now - can't see solicitor til tomorrow - what to expect?

OMG - just about to post and phone call from my Mum - ExP also trying to have DS taken away!! He isn't the Father!! What the hell does he think is going to happen to a 7 yr old 'in the system'

SenoraPostrophe Thu 15-Oct-09 21:14:45

oh, how awful.

I have no idea of what happens in cases like these, but I hope the solicitor has some answers.

Mummy369 Thu 15-Oct-09 21:16:02

Thank you, so do I sad

mumofsatan Fri 16-Oct-09 07:37:52

Presumably a hearing has been listed for the matter to be determined? Exp P will only have got an interim order so there will be a full hearing with regards to residence.

Are you saying DS isn't his? If he isn't the father then most likely he hasn't got parental responsibility for the boy (unless your sister entered into a PR agreement with him) but in any event, highly unlikely he'd get residence of a child that isn't his.

Your sister needs to see her solicitor asap and start fighting her case for residence of DD. Sounds like its gone too far for mediation

Mummy369 Fri 16-Oct-09 21:19:51

There's a hearing on Wednesday morning - by then her DD will have been away for 13 days. DS not his, never had PR for him, and it doesn't actually state in the paperwork that he wants him - he is trying to have him removed from my Sister's care out of spite angry - does he not realise the psychological trauma he has caused DS? DD born 2004 so he automatically has PR for her.

My sister started seeing a solicitor last Monday as he hadn't returned DD and was seeking an Em. Res. Order herself - ExP beat her to it, he filed the papers the day he took DD (had to have been planned). Apparently, though, no solicitor for him.

Leslaki Sat 17-Oct-09 11:33:18

Your poor sister and dcs. What a nightmare. She has to gte a good solicitor and fight this. Not got any advice - just hope she gets it all sorted.

clarea1 Sat 17-Oct-09 20:20:57

he can apply for residency of the son even if it isn't his. Grandparents can do this too, in fact anyone can to be fair. Whether or not the judge rules in the applicants favour is something else all together.

Mummy369 Sat 17-Oct-09 23:18:25

Thank you Leslaki

clarea1 How can anyone apply for residency of a child that isn't theirs? shock Surely there is some legal ruling to suggest the person must be a relative or at least well-known to the child?

mumofsatan Sun 18-Oct-09 09:56:45

I think you'll find that non parents need to seek leave (permission) of the Court before they can make an application for Residence. Its not that straightforward

ShinyAndNew Sun 18-Oct-09 10:01:45

No advice here either. Good luck to your sister though. I hope things go well with her solicitor.

floatyjosmum Sun 18-Oct-09 19:04:47

if a child has lived with someone for three ywars who isnt their parent they can apply for a RO, otherwise they have to apply for leave of the court to apply.

My only advice is to go with whatever the solicitor says.

clarea1 Sun 18-Oct-09 22:30:36

i think it depends on the case but in my area of work we often have non biological parents applying for residency - they have varied rates of success but as i am not in court i don;t know the legalities.

I would always advise legal advice. x

Mummy369 Sun 18-Oct-09 22:53:35

Thanks everyone. The only reassuring thing is that as well as my sister, either Mum or I could also apply for the Residency Order. My sister is seeing the Solicitor again tomorrow, and also has an appointment with social services after she collects her son from school. Our Mum will be there, too, so she should remain calm and not get upset or angry.

NanaNina Mon 19-Oct-09 18:35:27

Mummy369 - this sounds awful. How old is your niece (presumably school age) and what would be her wishes and feelings about with whom she wants to live, as this has to be taken into account when deciding about a child's future. I am an ind social worker but have been retired from l.a. for 7 years. I can't understand how your sister's ex got an Interim Residence Order without hearing your sister's side of the case. I don't think there is such a thing as an Emergency RO but I maybe wrong.

I think the main thing is that your sister needs good legal advice and not all solicitors have expertise in family law. I suggest she finds one who is on the Childrens Panel (google for one on this panel in your area) who has expertise in this area.

Before any decision is made about a RO on a permanent basis (or until the child is 16) then there will be full investigations into the matter, so your sister's position will be made known to the court, as will your niece's wishes and feelings.

It is true that anyone (in theory) can make application for a RO (under the terms of the CA 1989)for a child but there are conditions attached to such an application for a child for whom you are not the parent.

Hope this gets sorted sooner rather than later for you all, but these things are always lengthy and traumatic for all concerned. What is happening about contact between your niece and her mother - this needs to be sorted as the child must have contact with her mother unless there is anay reason to suppose this will not be safe for her.

NicknameTaken Tue 20-Oct-09 11:46:07

Thinking of your family today, Mummy369. Hope your sister gets her DD back today.

NicknameTaken Tue 20-Oct-09 15:55:01

Oops, thought today was Wednesday. Will think of them tomorrow!

floatyjosmum Tue 20-Oct-09 19:11:53

it is possible to get an emergency RO, can be done in different situations. but means you have to go to ocurt and sit and wait for a gap to see a judge.

its often done when children arent returned and there are no court orders already in place and the parent who noramlly has care can go to court on an emergency basis so that the child can then be returned to their care.

he may have gone and said there were concerns and that your sister could have removed her back into her care if the RO wasnt granted.

Mummy369 Tue 20-Oct-09 21:32:53

Basically, as the week has gone on we have been getting more information. When the ExP filed for the Emergency RO he lied to the court and (using Social Workers name) stated she told him to keep the child. This was the basis on which he got the Order. The same SW visited my sister at home yesterday and talked at length with her, toured the whole house (my sister encouraged her to look in every nook and cranny!) and has written a very positive report saying she has no concerns over the home or my sister's parenting. She is very pro. keeping siblings together, too. My nephew told her (he's 7) that he had to sleep with his sister's photo 'cos he was sad she wasn't there!

NanaNina I can't understand how your sister's ex got an Interim Residence Order without hearing your sister's side of the case - this was because of what he told the court that the SW had said, so the court listened to hearsay and did nothing to verify it. Luckily her solicitor IS a specialist in family law, and I also found some information today about the 'Rights of Women' group and my sister spoke with them this evening, so has a few key things to add to the barrister's case. The ExP has no solicitor and we think will be representing himself tomorrow. According to the Em order, no contact between my sister and the little one is allowed (she's only 5!)

He also told the court his address was the childs main home and this has meant my sister has to travel 30 miles to attend court tomorrow. Her solicitor said they could apply to have it changed and it would be allowed, but they would have to wait for a later court date.

floatyjosmum That's exactly what the ExP did. My sister was trying to arrange a hearing to have the child returned but he had already made the application and had the RO granted before Sis even had a response from the SW to arrange a home visit. She wouldn't have needed a SW report if he had not made the allegations on the day he took her for the access visit. And the RO application was made the next day - he had to have planned it!

Mummy369 Wed 21-Oct-09 16:33:24

grin smile grin SHE'S HOME grin smile grin

ShinyAndNew Wed 21-Oct-09 16:36:58

Good to hear. Glad it has worked out. What's happening now re; visits? I am sure your sis will be reluctant to let him take them out of her sight again?

MaggieEsLaMejorBruja Wed 21-Oct-09 16:39:21

I'm so glad that your sister got her dd back. I am always wary of my crazy ex doing something like this. He likes to continually lay the groundwork for an "but she is insane/depresed" defence...

Mummy369 Wed 21-Oct-09 17:06:01

A really good organisation to get advice from is 'Rights of Women'. Basically, at the moment the Judge has stipulated half all holidays with her father. Not sure what sis will do.. ExP also likes to undermine her abilities as a parent/provider. According to Womens Aid and Rights of Women, this is legally considered to be Domestic Abuse - ie using the child to say things designed to inflict emotional abuse.

NanaNina Wed 21-Oct-09 23:42:20

Mummy369 - SO glad to hear that your sister has her little girl back. I know that this must have been very distressing for you all (AND the child of course) but hopefully it has taught your sisters X that he can't act in such an impulsive way and distort the truth in order to get his own way and discredit your sister and cause upset to the child. I can't believe that any child would not be upset at being prevented from seeing her mother and sibling for even a few days. He clearly does not have the child's needs uppermost in his mind.

Do hope things sort out for you all.

NicknameTaken Thu 22-Oct-09 11:40:42

HURRAY!!! So glad for the whole family that she's home again.

Mummy369 Thu 22-Oct-09 23:37:00

Thank you so much, everyone smile
Well, some things started to come out. Apparently, at 5 yrs old she's 'far too old' to be watching cbeebies anymore! Also, today stayed with v. good friend of sis for an hour, while sis took DS to karate class. When sis returned, very concerned fried took sis to one side and said - very sorry, upset DD, was told off firmly for something a little naughty. DD responded with bursting in to uncontrollable sobs and shaking with fear sad

When sis asked DD about this and was about to reassure her, you know - not very naughty just need to listen to DF and be a good girl.. again, sobbing hysterically and shaking with fear. Now, usually, DD very confidant child, a real dare-devil, tomboy, completely fearless, has a whinge or argument about being told off then back to normal, so very out-of-character for her.

Upon gentle probing, DD eventually told sis she was told off by ExP for a) going to cuddle him b) falling down the stairs and c) tripping over a toy. At each incident, told off and smacked! angryshockangry

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