Access/ Easement suddenly blocked

[RoomR0613]

Without going into too much detail hopefully

We live in a small hamlet. For at least 40 years in living memory residents of the hamlet (between 1- 4 households at varying times) have had access to a major road via an unmetalled track across land owned by a (very very very) large estate.

As far as we know the person who made the track originally (long deceased) never asked permission from the landowner (therefore there is nothing in writing), but went about it fairly blatantly, and the track has become so well used over the last 40 years by the hamlet and other locals 'in the know' that google maps has (mistakenly) shown it as a genuine route for around 3 years.

This has recently resulted in an increased volume of traffic (maybe 10 cars a day on top of use by the hamlet) using it as a through road as directed by google maps.

Today (on Easter fecking Sunday!) someone (presumably a representative of the landowner) has blocked each end if the track so it can no longer be passed. This has put approximately 10 miles each way onto the journey of people living in the hamlet to reach the major road.

Can they just do this with no warning? They are one of the biggest landowners in the country so we have no hope of winning any kind of legal battle without pots of money or a absolute blatant disregard of the law.

[Monkeyssplit]

I would go round and talk to them really politely. A legal battle would be expensive and if they have let you use it all this time they are obviously not against you using it, just others.

[RoomR0613]

We can't 'go round' unfortunately. They aren't a neighbour they are one of the countries major landowners.

We are talking about somewhere between Dyson and the Dutchy of Cornwall in terms of ownership/peerage. One does not just rock up at their backdoor and go 'oi, m'lord, you appear to have dropped a boulder or two in our way, please shift them stat'. A, because 'they' don't have a backdoor and B if they did it would be answered by the Butler with a shotgun.

[Plink42]

Their land they can do as they like!

[RoomR0613]

My rudimentary Googling suggests you are completely wrong actually plink I just don't know if it's something we realistically have any chance of fighting without pots of money.

[Polyethyl]

How much evidence have you got of the 40 years of use. Can you really prove long term use? If you have good evidence then it must be worth trying a solicitors letter.

[PanamaPattie]

Sadly it looks like there is nothing you can do.

[ElloBrian]

I think you would be best clubbing together to pay for some initial legal advice rather than asking on a forum where you’ll get a bunch of people being deliberately arseholeish and some other people saying ‘I don’t know but I sympathise’.

[RoomR0613]

No physical evidence that it's been used by people living in the hamlet for that long (i.e there's no photos or written agreements).

Only 'witness statements' from people living there/ used to live there and maps/ photos showing the track itself has existed for at least 30 years. Theres also a gentleman's agreement between one of the residents and another adjacent landowner for additional access over their land that can only be accessed using this track. That's been in place for around 25 years.

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

Plink is mistaken. You may have an easement by prescription, you'll need to prove at least 20 years of use and that (at least up until now) the landowner has not objected - and this evidence will need to be fairly specific.
This does not imply that the general public will have access, but you as local landowners might.

You can register some of this by forms at the Land Registry but really, you need a solicitor.

[Singlenotsingle]

Not necessarily, plink. It needs looking into by a specialist solicitor.

[RoomR0613]

If it makes a difference to anything one of the residents of the hamlet is a farmer who has rights to farm the land the track is on as a 'commoner'. His grandfather was the person who created the track and he uses the track as part of accessing the common he has rights to farm.

Until today.

As you can imagine he is also extremely cross.

[titchy]

It might well be that a polite solicitors letter suggesting the right be re-instated for use by hamlet dwellers only would be reasonably received - a gate that only residents have the key to for instance. And yes it does sound as if it's a right of way you now have.

Landowner is rightly pissed off with it having become a de facto public road which it obviously isn't.

[EluphNaugeMeop]

Chances are it will be unblocked tomorrow. If a track is used unhindered by the general public year in year out for a set number of years it becomes a public right of way. Private land owners regularly close such roads for one day a year (easter Sunday being a popular choice as most people don't travel) in order to maintain their full ownership of it and avoid unwelcome public obligations.

There were a couple of such roads near where I grew up. Seriously no big deal.

[Blankscreen]

Yes as pp said it sounds as though you will have acquired a right by prescription.

You will need statutory declarations proving this.

You need a specialist real estate dispute resolution lawyer.

[PCohle]

As others have said it is possible you have acquired rights by prescription but proving that will require (expensive) legal advice.

Again, as has been mentioned upthread landowners often close "permissive paths" for a token day a year to prevent them becoming public rights of way. It's obviously worth checking if the track re-opens shortly before taking further action. Although frankly given the importance of the track to the hamlet even if it does re-open seeking legal advice is probably sensible.

The fact that the track was created and is used by a farmer with rights as a commoner would worry me though. The landlord may argue that permission use the track relates to that right rather than forming a separate easement.

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

"Although frankly given the importance of the track to the hamlet even if it does re-open seeking legal advice is probably sensible."

^^ This. It's really worth doing - imagine if they change policy, or sell on to someone who blocks it. You'll be blocked out, your life will be much harder and your property value would be affected too.

[BubblesBuddy]

Usually large land owners have Land or Estate Agents/Managers. They will deal with all land and farming matters for the owner. Where are they based? As they have offices, they are usually contactable.

Our house is on a bridleway which is not owned by anyone but the Council wrote to say we could no longer drive cars over it to get to our house. In other words we had no vehicular right of way to our house. It had been driven over for 60 years at the time. Other users had access to their land beyond our house with wheeled vehicles so we all met the Council Officer and established continued usage over many years. We all had details of vehicular rights in our deeds.

In your case, the Agents must have known the track was there and how long it had been there. They seem to have become annoyed about additional usage. We could prove continuous usage as details were in our deeds but you don’t have this which makes the track a permissive route but also one that has been established for generations. It was a great shame your deeds and others didn’t include a vehicular right over this track.

I would firstly try and see someone at the Estate Office. Explain what a pain it will be if the track remains closed. Ask politely if it can be reinstated for hamlet dwellers only. Discuss how this can be done. Usually Private Road signs and gates do the trick. Offer to pay for this.

Also check that the track is not included on your County Councils Definitive Map of highways, green lanes, paths and bridleways. Should it be any of these it cannot be blocked. Just get the map on line. Don’t ask the Council anything because they don’t like “roads” going out into main roads.

If you can possibly negotiate with the Estate’s Agent, it will be a lot cheaper. Good luck.

[PCohle]

I would be very wary of engaging in negotiations with the landowner or its agents without seeking legal advice first. It is very easy to make concessions or put something in writing that inadvertently undermines your case should you later choose to go down the legal route.

[BubblesBuddy]

It’s perfectly ok to ask as a lay person. The OP or hamlet reps can be very careful not going to say anything that puts them in a worse position. What concession could be made? She cannot give one! They are not really in a position of strength.

The legal route will cost mega bucks against an Estate with a bottomless pit of money. It’s a minefield taking this on. It’s also very difficult to find legal advice in this field too. The CLA are quite good but I don’t expect the OP is a member. As it’s very specialist advice, unless the hamlet dwellers are very well off, expect an expensive legal route and even then it may not be successful. There do not appear to be any written agreements, just use of a track over a period of time. I was simply suggesting a cheaper way to help the OP through a difficult situation.

[PCohle]

I meant concessions as in unintentionally conceding a legal point, not bargaining with the landowner.

Nor am I talking about spending thousands going through the courts before even speaking to the landowner.

I'm just suggesting that the hamlet landowners collectively pay for some brief legal advice prior to entering into any discussions so they have a clearer idea of where they stand and the strength of their case.

Property law is not a particularly niche speciality in my experience, and access disputes are very common.

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

I'm with PCohle here. Get advice before speaking.

BubblesBuddy does not appear to have experience of the law in this area beyond their own case - "just use of a track over a period of time" is the entire basis of an easement by prescription and absolutely does have some power. Negotiating for a private right of way that the owner could rescind at any time would definitely be a step down. Decent advice here is not bargain basement but you also don't have to spend a lot. Getting a proper right of way should be worth a lot to you, both in convenience in the short term and property values in the long term.

Talk to the others asap while feelings are still high and people will be keen to put money in a pot to help. Otherwise if they take the blockage away next week, people will be less enthusiastic and you could all be losing the right to your path and relying on the whims of a distant landowner.

[BubblesBuddy]

Well DDs other half is a property barrister so
I guess they get no work at all! It not being a specialist legal subject.

Having had to find and take legal advice on our access and other right of way matters I have not mentioned here, it wasn’t easy at all! However, if several people will pay, then it’s a start. Your average high street solicitor might not be good enough though.

[PCohle]

Of course land law is a specialist area of law, my point was it is not a very unusual one. The OP should be able to find a property lawyer fairly easily.

This access is clearly valuable (both practically and financially) to OP and there are several landowners with whom to split the costs of initial legal advice.

I merely think getting some advice as to the strength of their case and any potential pitfalls before speaking to the landlord/agent could help prevent an expensive misstep in the long run.

[RoomR0613]

So we've been digging a bit further today.

It's still not clear why after 40 years the landowner has suddenly decided to block the track off. Or if it's even the landowner that has done it (plot thickens).

There's not loads of us in the hamlet and we don't have much money between us, a tenant farmer, and two long term sub tenants of the farmer. The tenant farmer is a member of the CLA and the Tenant farmers association and is going to contact them in the morning. He is in the middle of lambing time though so already extremely busy. He looks stressed.

As a indication of how well used this track is the council bin men got caught out by the blockade this morning (they use it to come in rather than out) so even though we forgot to put our bins out today due to it being a bank holiday they knocked on to ask 'WTF'!? (and luckily still took our bin bags amongst a lot of reversing, reverse beeping and swearing). It's just added 15 minutes onto their Monday morning round too.

Short of dozens of witness statements saying the track has been used by vehicles for 40 years we aren't sure what other evidence to try and collect. The definitive map held by the council shows it as an unsurfaced toad. If you add other layers it also shows it as a footpath and a bridleway.

There is no monetary incentive to keeping the track useable, the inhabitants of the hamlet are all tenants and that's unlikely to change in the next 30 years, It's purely an access/ convenience issue.

[RoomR0613]

That would be an unsurfaced road, not toad.

Although we have plenty of toads.