Can I do this (legal issues) joint house purchase under power of attorney?

[powerovereternity]

I've also posted this in the Elderly Parents section but realised that maybe I'm hoping for more of a legal procedure/possible consequences type of response.

Stuck on the horns of a practical/ethical/financial/emotional dilemma about how best to cope with mother's future care arrangements.

I have Power of Attorney for everything - registered with Office of Public Guardian.

I've been caring for her for about 7 years since she started getting less able.

She's 91, lives alone in bungalow, diagnosed with vascular dementia, mobile-ish with frame in house or pushed in wheelchair outdoors, losing weight, fairly bonkers but sharp enough at times, can be incontinent but washes out her pants and thinks I don't know - very secretive - entirely in denial about dementia/old age/frailty. Bit narcissistic, not much by way of conversation unless it's about her/her sisters/the past.

She would probably refuse other carers so I'm her only carer (no siblings), I live nearby and able to see her twice a day spending probably half an hour in the morning and 2 hours in the evening, feeding her and doing her housework.

She's financially independent and does quite well for pensions - a saver not a spender - as her care costs are nothing.

I feel (as does her GP) that her time of living entirely alone is probably coming to an end soon.

A house locally has come up for sale with a self-contained annexe.

I can't afford to buy it but she could if I sold her house and used most of her savings - about £400k all in.

I would want it to be in joint names - 50/50 possibly.

I have some money but nowhere near enough to buy half and it's all I've got to keep me until the end of my days. I won't be able to work and look after her soon.

If we buy this house, I would be her full-time carer.

I suppose the bottom line is - I'm going to be looking after her until either she dies or I have no choice but to put her in a care home.

I'm the beneficiary of her estate.

Local care homes cost about £1000 per week. She's obviously got the money but she's always been adamant about not wanting to go in a home - aren't we all though?

I know she would prefer the annexe arrangement.

I would consider it if I can own it 50/50 because it secures some inheritance/security/future for me.

Otherwise, I could find she goes into a care home anyway in a few years, she lives to a hundred and ten, the house has to be sold all the money's gone along with most of the rest of my life.

It's quite possible she could outlive me.

Whereas if I go with the care home option now, I might inherit nothing, but I have my own life immediately.

Are there any legal hurdles to me, as her attorney, buy a house with her 50/50 without actually having the 50%?

I understand there are moral issues with this and I am mindful of those.

[Collaborate]

The main hurdle is it is theft. You have no right to do that. Speak to a solicitor who deals with elderly care. I’m sure something could be worked out to enable the property to be bought, but if you use your mum’s savings to buy a property you then own half of, unless you’ve actually paid full value for your half you risk jail.

[powerovereternity]

@collaborate - I understand where you are coming from and i'm not blind to your view although I think it's slightly more ambiguous than that.

I am the sole beneficiary of her estate at death.
If she died tomorrow, I get everything.
I have sole power of attorney and can make decisions which are in her best interest.
I know she would prefer to live with me rather than go into a carehome.
I cannot live with her in her current home and she can't live with me.

It's my duty to act, in as much as I can, to fulfill her wish not to be in a care home.
I can do this by buying that property.
Of course, I have no legal right to own 50% of anything of hers until she's dead when I have the right to own 100% of everything of hers - which may well be 100% of nothing.

If she's still alive when her money runs out then the state will have to carry the burden.

I've been saving the state that burden for 7 years already - unpaid - no benefits at all and if I don't put her in a care home I will continue to save the state money at my own personal cost.

That will continue until I can no longer care for her and then she will go - self-funded - into a care home until my money runs out.

Your point of view would suggest that you think that the right course of action then would be that I should put her in a home now - let the money run out and leave her to the state - rather than complain that I am her unpaid carer for how ever many years

I could put her in a £3k a week home - she can afford it until she can't but then it wouldn't be my problem - it would be the taxpayers.

It would give her the life of Reilly - and why shouldn't she have it? It's her money.

And it would relive me of a great burden.

I get the legal point - but what about the moral aspect?

Yep, I know I'm trying to justify a hypothetical action, where perhaps I think there would be a 'natural justice' in what I suggest.

[Collaborate]

It’s still theft. Pure and simple. A gross breach of trust if you enrich yourself when you are duty bound to act in her best interest.

[Collaborate]

Oh, and for the avoidance of doubt, it’s morally corrupt.

[MayDayFightsBack]

I don't think it's theft if it's what your mother wants and if she has her own independent solicitor (separate from one you might engage for yourself) to draw up the paperwork. It depends on what your mother wants to do. If it's what she wants then it's what she wants. If she doesn't want it then you have no right to arrange things in that way even when it's beneficial to you both. Take legal advice and see what a solicitor says but make sure your mum has her own separate solicitor that looks out for her interests - and make sure it's a good one.

[MayDayFightsBack]

I forgot to say. For what it's worth I wouldn't do this purely because it will be so hard for you. I say this as someone who had a relative with Alzheimer's. You have no idea yet how hard it will get, it will destroy your life if you become her only carer, it really isn't worth it. You'd be better off getting financial advice on how protect your mother's estate as much as possible by making suitable investments of her money etc but arranging for her to go into a nursing home. At 91 the chances are she won't live many more years but she could live for another ten years and you will have no life during that time.

[powerovereternity]

We'll obviously differ on levels of moral outrage but you've made me think it through more carefully and for that I'm grateful - more practical information would help too but you didn't have any of that.

It wasn't something I felt comfortable with or I wouldn't have asked for opinions in the first place.

The solution was actually staring me in the face anyway but it's only through working through things that one gets there.

I was confusing ownership with security.

She can own any property she wants as long as it 100% hers.

I can live with her and - given our relationship - and my age - the council wouldn't be able to take her house and make me homeless anyway.

I believe it's called compulsory disregard.

So, she can live to 110 and so can I and we'll both be alright.

That probably won't make you any less cross but when I walk a mile in your shoes I'll probably find out what it's like - and vice versa.

[Vitalogy]

I think it's a good deal for your mother. But are you willing to sacrifice what could be a long time of your own life to this set up. You don't say how old you are or about any relationships you have or want. And what you want for the foreseeable future for your own life. If your mother was in her right mind would she want you to basically give up your own life and time for her.

[powerovereternity]

@MayDayFightsBack

Thanks for your more considered advice -much better than being simply critical but totally unhelpful like @Collaborate

[RandomMess]

Collaborate was telling you the legal situation, which would be theft.

Only downside is that if your Mum goes into a home then they can put a charge against the house, not sure what the law will always be about you living in her house?

[Collaborate]

Sorry if I’ve helped keep you out of jail.

As your mother lacks capacity her consent or otherwise is immaterial. You’d have to apply to the court of protection to buy a property in joint names, and they’d say no.

[winterwonderly]

You obviously need some proper legal advice but could your mother gift the house to you or is that not possible because she's not of sound mind? You then get something drawn up legally to state that she has the right to reside with you in the annex (or similar if you have to move) for the rest of her life. We're doing something similar but with a family member who doesn't have dementia so I realise it's probably a completely different situation.

[Gerberama]

Does your mum still have capacity to make decisions? You could phone the OPG and ask their advice

[HoleyCoMoley]

Has she had a capacity assessment, if she has capacity to make her own decision she can move and buy whatever she wants. Why do you need a house with an annex, could you not just have your own bedroom and bathroom. You could also claim carers allowance and attendance allowance for her. If in were her g.p. and knew this was an option I would be asking for a care needs assessment so that she has any equipment in place that she might need and that you are trained up in manual handling, incontinence care, pressure care, safe swallowing especially as she will just deteriorate. I would also seek legal advise about inheritance tax, using her money, selling her property and her understanding and capacity about what you'd like to do.

[GOODCAT]

You will need approval from the Court of Protection for this unless your mum has capacity to decide for herself. Even then because of her age you should arrange for a solicitor to advise her independently of you. This will also have tax consequences and they can advise her on that too.

[titchy]

You obviously need some proper legal advice

Which collaborate has given...

[HoleyCoMoley]

You said in your other post that she doesn't have capacity so you will need to apply to the c.o.p. whatever happens you also need to think about her future care, future hospitalization, what happens to her if you become unable to care for her, her needs are the priority.

[worridmum]

Collaborate is correct what you were planning is theft and a breach of trust when the inveratble happens and she needs to go into a home the LA will look at her finances and notice she/you have deprived of a large chunk of her assists so would go to court where if you go ahead you would most likely end up in prison because it is theft and misuse of postion which they come down hard upon.

[Berthatydfil]

Could you buy it in a different shares eg she owns 75% or 80%
This would be for her benefit, relieve the burden on the state for her care and would give you some security

[CornishMaid1]

If your mum does not have capacity (which from what you have said she does not) then you cannot do as you want.

The fact you will be a beneficiary one day is neither here nor there. You cannot sort your mother's affairs now to benefit you in the future.

The job of the Attorney is to act in your Mum's best interests. One of the pillars of that is you are not allowed to deprive the donor of an asset. As Attorney you can sell your Mum's house and buy her a new one (you are substituting the asset) or sell her house and buy a new one with you (still substituting).

However, you cannot gift yourself a chunk of your Mum's money (which you will be doing if you buy 50/50). If you buy in unequal shares, with shares equal to what you each put in that is fine to do. If you want to 'gift' your Mum's money to you to have a 50% share yourself you will need to apply to the Court of Protection for consent to do so (which they may well refuse).

If you do it without consent, as previous posters have said, it is theft and you risk investigation by the OPG and police and prosecution for theft. It does happen and I have known it happens for less than the amount you would be taking.

[Tobuyornot99]

Is there a reason you can't live with your mother in the bungalow? You could then keep your savings, whilst claiming carers allowance etc. If you do manage to care for Mum until she passes you will inherit the bungalow and any savings. If Mum goes into a home your finances will not be entangled, you'll still have your savings and car home fees will only be deducted until Mums passing, you'll inherit whatever is left.

[Tobuyornot99]

Pressed hit too soon - if Mums health needs are complex and unpredictable she may be eligible for CHC funding, whereby the nhs pay for all care regardless of assets.

[notliable]

It's always depressing to see how eager people are to offer their 'expertise' on what somebody is doing wrong but are then unsurprisingly silent on what such a person should do instead.

If ever evidence is required of the limits of the knowledge available on public forums, that is it.

The OP has already stated she understands clearly that joint ownership is not an appropriate course of action.
She has even touched on part of the solution but the 'legal experts' on here have no contribution on that.

It's entirely clear that most of the contributors on this thread have no safe knowledge of the actual powers of an attorney and a cursory look over the OPG pages would save them and others from their bad advice and poor knowledge in the future.

Back to the problem presented by the OP.

The OP's concerns are that she not be penalised either financially or by losing her home as a consequence of caring for her mother and saving the state a small fortune along the way.

While it may be difficult, it's probably likely that at some stage before your mother can only be cared for in a residential facility, you may find it easiest to tend to her while living in her house.

Perhaps this was even the family home before you moved out? No matter.

You may well find it easiest to tend to her needs while living with her.

The OP has indicated she falls into a category of person covered by the compulsory disregard rules.

Difficult as it may be - move in with your mother.

The OP indicates that her mother has savings.

Residential care should be paid for on a month by month basis.

There is no obligation on the OP to sell her mother's home to pay fees.

The 'rules' can be used to protect you too. Do not allow your sense of duty to cause you to disadvantage yourself.
As you have already seen people will very quickly judge you for not observing the rules - so use the rules to your own protection.

It is of no concern whatsoever of the LA what the OP does until, the OP asks for assistance with paying care fees.

Until that time the LA has no interest or business in any of the OP's or mother's financial affairs. Nothing to do with them. Full stop.

Your mother is 91.

Pay the fees month by month from her savings.

Defer all financial decisions as long as possible at every stage.

If, if, the situation should arise - and it very well may not - that the OP needs LA help with fees, then she may decide to sell the property or keep it, live in it and come to an arrangement with the LA.

If she sells it, she retains control of her mother's money/property - it is still no affair of the LA as long as no assistance is sought.

The fees are paid month by month. Defer action at every possible stage. Do not panic. If in doubt, stop and think. Never give control of an asset to the LA where this can be avoided.

In today's money, the OP says her mother has approximately £400k or loosely translated 400 weeks of care home fees seven and a half years - cheaper homes are certainly available. at £700 per week - that's 11 years of fees.

It's commonly believed that a dementia diagnosis halves life expectancy and life expectancy at 91 is probably no more than 5 years at best.

You have a hard road ahead of you OP.
I don't envy you or judge you.
I'm sure you will make the right decision.

Ignore the moralisers - everybody's got to learn sometime.

Good luck.

[titchy]

@notliable - op posted on the legal topic. That's why she received legal advice....

[notliable]

@titchy

However, she didn't receive legal advice.

In fact, she didn't receive any advice of note.

In the main, she received ill-informed, judgemental, pompous, moralising condemnation.

I see no evidence of anyone posting here with any legal insight into the issues raised - only the usual internet 'fantasy lawyers', pedants and literalists.

Plus ça change.