Grandparents rights

[katem454]

Hey, just wondering what rights a grandparent would have if their son wasn't on the birth certificate and thr mother was saying he wasn't the father. I know legally the father in question could do something legally but what about his family?

[soapboxqueen]

I'm fairly sure gp have no rights unless they can show they have an ongoing relationship with a child and even then I don't think much happens.

[rainingcatsanddog]

The grandparents can't do anything apart from paying their son's legal fees so that he could be recognised as the child's father and get parental responsibility then contact.

[Chocolate50]

You can apply for permission to ask for a child arrangements order in your local family court.

I don't know whether you can ask on the form for a paternity test? Why is the father unable to request this himself?
I imagine you can because there will be instances where a natural parent has died or left and there is a need to establish paternity.

[Collaborate]

Apply for permission to make an application for a contact order. Both parents will be respondents, and the court can order DNA testing if paternity is an issue.
The first two responses are wrong.

[soapboxqueen]

collaborate I thought gp had to show evidence of an ongoing relationship etc?

Also, in light of a campaign by Esther Ranson about gp rights, I assumed these things were usually unsuccessful. Is that incorrect?

[negomi90]

A grandparent in the UK has no rights regardless of whether their child is male/female on the birth certificate/not on the birth certificate.

[newdaylight]

As above, a grandparent has no specific rights and the birth certificate is irrelevant to this. Neither do the parents for that matter, but they do have responsibilities.

If it's about contact they should make every effort through the family first but they can apply to the family court.

[Sickofpeople]

My experience from a friend was that Grandparents CAN apply to court for an order to see the child but that it is rarely granted unless there has been a decent relationship in place already.

[ForeverBubblegum]

Grandparents themselves have no rights, but can apply for contact based on the child's right to see them. But that is only likely to be granted if they have a strong preexisting relationship, and it would be disruptive to the child to end it.

[katem454]

My son does drink alot at the weekend and she accuses him of using class as. I'm unsure if this is true. She's refusing to tell him the date of birth of the baby and her name even as claiming he isn't the father. They have a 2 year old already which i put in a court order to see her and she agreed for the once a month for 2 hours. She also has a 9 year old from a previous which has just been claimed my son turned up drunk verbally and racially abusing him and went to attack him, she said he recorded it all on his ipad. The next day she asked him to leave. I'm glad he's gone as was a toxic relationship but worried i won't get to see other grandchild alone now

[shouldwestayorshouldwego]

To be honest I would just try to be as supportive of her and your 2yr old granddaughter as possible. Don't be too Disney with your granddaughter when you visit but give her mother some money to treat all three children and give all three birthday presents/ Christmas presents. Hopefully over time you will gain the mother's trust and be able to see the baby. Be a friendly, supportive, stable influence. I would build on the relationship between you and their mother so court isn't necessary.

[ForeverBubblegum]

Growing up I had no contact with my farther but a fantastic relationship with my paternal grandmother. This was because her and my mother worked to maintain a friendly relationship, so we could visit as a family over Christmas / all holiday together without it feeling awkward or dividing.

Could you try to be supportive of the family as a whole? maybe suggest an outing with you, the mother and all three kids, and build trust from there. I think you'll get much further working with the mother for the benefit of the kids (knowing family / who they are), then trying to steamroller her with court orders.

[PotteringAlong]

Why do you need a court order? Have you actually spoken to her and asked her about keeping a relationship with the children?

Seems a bit ‘sledgehammer to crack a nut’ if you don’t even know if it’s a problem.

Make it clear to her though that you want to see them because you want to see them, not to facilitate back door contact with an unsuitable alcoholic and drug addict father.

[Chocolate50]

Potteringalong
Op already said she had to get to see her 1st gc through the court so imagine it'll be the same with this one
& kissthealderman
What?? Its the right of the child to see their gp. The law is changing on this right now as a matter of fact. About time too. There will be an 'assumed right' to see gc. In practice this means that if there is no contact the gp will have the right to apply to the court for a child arrangement order. Whereas now a gp has to apply for permission to apply for a CAO first. It'll cut red tape out.
Such a terrible shame that so many children are missing out on this relationship- I can't imagine how much you'd eventually resent the parent that prevents this...

[soapboxqueen]

I don't think the law is changing but there is pressure for this to happen.

I'm not sure how it would work in reality though.

[atotalshambles]

Grandparents don't have rights, children do.

It sounds as if your daughter-in-law is having a tough time. Could you meet her for a coffee and explain how you would you would love to develop a good relationship with your new grandchild and support her?

You sound like a caring grandparent but it sounds as if your son is behaving in a damaging way. I would look at supporting your daughter-in-law and offering help as I am sure as a lone parent she would need it.

[MissVanjie]

Why do you need to see your other grandchild “alone”? It’s a newborn baby, those times are a long way off.

Be supportive of your ex dil and respect her boundaries, maintain a relationship with the 2yo and be a good friend and the calm kind stable presence your son is apparently unable to be, and i am sure that in time you will be allowed a relationship with all the children.

[Chocolate50]

Soapbox
I think it is i read an article & mp's are putting pressure on hoc
As I said. At to mo gp have to apply to the court for permission to apply. If there was a change in the law they would simply be able to apply for a CAO & skip getting permission to apply

[katem454]

At the moment I don't know where I'd stand. I will offer mediation and if she doesn't turn up i will apply for an order. I don't think I'll know the date of birth or name of the child though and my son wont be on the birth certificate. This as i know from before is in the arrangements order it only asks who has pr of the child. A few months ago she did email me and offer me to see the baby if I get in touch with her but I'd rather see the baby alone without her there maybe for the 2 hours with my other granddaughter but not sure that would go through as baby very young

[ThisBabyIsAnOctopus]

Are you being serious? You think that you’re entitled to see a young baby ALONE without its mother present?!

[Ocdandme]

If you really want to see the baby why can't you see it with her present at the moment?
When I was a new Mum I wouldn't have wanted to let my newborn go off without me, especially if I was breastfeeding.

[ToadsforJustice]

You sound wonderful.

[frogsoup]

"I'd rather see the baby alone without her there maybe for the 2 hours with my other granddaughter"

That is batshit!

[NotTakenUsername]

Yea your only option here is to catch your flies with honey.
Work on a relationship with their mother. That relationship will benefit the children immensely. A great pair of role models if you can achieve it.

Also, your son IS using class A’s. They are crazy common and she has no reason to lie about it - he sounds really quite terrible. Try not to be blinded by the understandable love you have for you child.