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Consent Order denied

(61 Posts)
TryingToForgeAnewLife Tue 15-May-18 06:59:55

So fed up. Financial order denied as the Judge wants the financial split explained better.

What's the likelihood of them then agreeing it or refusing it after they have asked for more information?

It's taken 2 months to come back. Will it now take another two months?

sad

Collaborate Tue 15-May-18 07:32:54

Uncertain how long it will take. Many take less time as it might go back before the same judge.

Impossible to say whether it will eventually be passed, as it depends on many things. i presume you're both represented (as otherwise the judge would have called you both in), so your solicitors could perhaps provide a better answer.

TryingToForgeAnewLife Tue 15-May-18 08:15:31

Many thanks for your reply

Yes, we have both had solicitors draw up the agreement. So frustrating. Has cost £8000 to get to this point already sad

My biggest fear is that the Judge will award stbxh more money and I'll have to sell my house to raise it - leaving the boys and l homeless

Familylawsolicitor Tue 15-May-18 09:43:19

^My biggest fear is that the Judge will award stbxh more money and I'll have to sell my house to raise it - leaving the boys and l homeless
That won’t happen. It will either be refused or granted after an explanation. No new order will be substituted without you agreeing on it unless one of you issues an application and the proceedings go all the way to a trial.

Queries from a judge are not very unusual.

I’ve only ever had one which couldn’t be resolved by explanation where a non family lawyer had drafted the consent order before my involvement and it was a pile of nonsense that couldn’t be legally implemented.

Gagastwin Tue 15-May-18 12:27:40

Very common, ex had to identify who owned the house he was living in and supply proof it wasn't him, it was his parents which I knew and the judge then allowed the consent order.

RedHelenB Tue 15-May-18 15:26:10

If you've both had representation and are happy with the agreement then it should go through but the judge has to check you both know the ramifications of the agreement. I was worried mine would be refused as ex hadn't seen a solicitor and I got more than the lions share of assets but it was stamped without a problem. My friend got called in and they both said they were happy with it and it got stamped with no change.

TryingToForgeAnewLife Tue 15-May-18 21:15:16

The split is as follows:

Stbex has

£26,000 from me
280,000 pension

He also had £40,000 in redundancy but as he'd spent it in the two months from leaving me to filling out Form E it hasn't been included in his assests but my solicitor made mention to it in the Court Order. He also has £16,000 on credit card
.. which get taken off his assests. This REALLY annoys me as it's all his own debt.

My share is:

£195,000 equity in house. I have a mortgage for the rest of my working life!
£50,000 pension
£20,000 savings which were pre-marriage
£20,000 pension share to me

I also have two children, 1 is disabled and will never be independent. He earns £45,000 per year. I earn £13,000 plus benefits. I am PT due to the needs of the children.

As of June he will be living with OW - this was omitted on the Consent Order. Don't know if it would have made much difference.

However.... the big sticking point is inheritance. When my dad died he left his half of my parents house to my sibling and l. So mum owns 50% and we own 25% each. Mum still lives there. Stbex and l agreed not to include Mum's house. But my concern is that once he realises that he could get more £££ he will now change his mind. Or the judge will say it has to be taken into consideration. In which case I'll have to sell mine and the kids home to pay him off.

RandomMess Tue 15-May-18 21:22:43

I wonder if the judge is concerned you are getting less than 50% with 2 DC to support one with disabilities when his earnings are 3 x yours...

TryingToForgeAnewLife Tue 15-May-18 22:38:48

Once l add on benefits and maintenance we are similar but my benefits have reduced since l was first awarded and will continue to fall

TryingToForgeAnewLife Wed 16-May-18 09:19:14

That also includes child allowance which will eventually stop but l will likely still have ds1 at home long past 18yrs and also includes the boys maintenance..... which also can be stopped at anytime

Familylawsolicitor Wed 16-May-18 09:21:09

What is the actual query from the judge? And what does your solicitor say about it?

RandomMess Wed 16-May-18 12:20:26

These are all reasons why you should be getting a greater share...

TryingToForgeAnewLife Wed 16-May-18 15:50:58

My solicitor has said that she isn't holding her head in despair at the request for more information.

RedHelenB Wed 16-May-18 15:56:35

Definitely a case of making things more clear to the judge so I'm sure you'll be OK.

TryingToForgeAnewLife Wed 16-May-18 16:09:50

I so hope so. My children have been through so much the last 11 months. They have been fantastic and have accepted our split and then 4 weeks later the OW into their lives. I just don't want them to loose their permanent home and stability of here as that was the first thing they asked and was what worried them the most.

I'm just so worried that STBXH will go back on the agreement and will want my Mum's house included.... or the Judge will say it has to be

Familylawsolicitor Wed 16-May-18 17:42:26

Don’t worry. At this stage just further explanation so that the judge understands the proposed order. That is proper as the judge isn’t just rubber stamping. A schedule of assets and net effect asset schedule would be helpful here - ask your solicitor if she will be doing this.

You still have a concluded agreement so your ex can’t pull out - you could seek enforcement of the agreement (called a Xyhdias agreement) if he tried to use this letter to renege on all the principles of the agreement reached

TryingToForgeAnewLife Wed 16-May-18 18:56:46

Thankyou. My solicitor has already sent a schedule of assets and then one with net assets to XH solicitor for them to sign to show the Judge that we are in agreement.

shallichangemyname Wed 16-May-18 19:16:06

Solicitor here.
I used to practise in London. Queries were very rare.
Now I'm provincial. Queries are common. Even though the Statement of Information clearly shows what's what the judges still want it explained to them. I do that now as standard in a covering letter to avoid delays.
In the central family court in London the judges are all specialist matrimonial practitioners. Not so in the sticks, so my feeling is they just need it all chapter and verse.
So I suspect everything will be ok.

TryingToForgeAnewLife Wed 16-May-18 20:45:03

Thankyou.

It was all in the Consent Order about how he had had sole benefit of his redundancy but it hadn't been included on his financial form as he'd spent it all in the 3 months from him leaving to us filling in Form E. Also on it was how l had had the FMH transfered to me and he'd been given a payout so he could use that as a deposit for a new property. I have texts with him stating how much he wanted and that is what l gave him.

shallichangemyname Wed 16-May-18 22:35:00

It's ok. Your solicitor just needs to spell out the thinking behind the agreement. Some judges like to be spoon fed more than others. It's frustrating when the information is already there. And as the other solicitor said the two of you can reach whatever agreement you like, as long as you understand it and have had advice.
In 25 years I've only had one order sent back with a request that the solicitors justified it at a hearing (rather than the request you've had to clarify it). I acted for W who was penniless in her own right but came from a wealthy family. H was reasonably well off (own house and income). Deal reached between H and W's family to pay him some hush money (her conduct potentially created social embarrassment). Judge saw the documents saying W penniless yet paying H a substantial sum (he overlooked the part that explained how it was being funded). So of course he questioned it.

TryingToForgeAnewLife Wed 16-May-18 22:46:05

Just feel sick currently. Thought I'd be applying for my absolute and it would be over with.... pretty much a year to the day our marriage ended.

Is much notice paid to living arrangements. I.e them living together.... and me having the boys 12/14 days?

worridmum Thu 17-May-18 00:47:23

In the eyes of the court pension £ is not equal to physical capital aka actual cash or house equity.

So on paper the ex gets 280K pension but as he cannot just withdraw that and spend it on what ever he wants (he can withdrew money from it but there is normally a massive penalty in doing so) so the OP is getting the better deal having the house equity + more of the liquid cash that she can use.

I am not saying the OP is getting an amazing deal but its much more fair then what others are saying if people could withdraw the pension pot like a normal bank account it would be completely different but most pensions have clauses that if you empty "your" pot you forfeit 10, 15 , 20% or more in some of the worse pension schemes. Hence why courts do not consider £1 in equity or liquid cash the same as £1 in a pension fund.

Enough of correcting other posters.

OP do not worry judges ask for clarification all the time it should be a simply and quick process to sort out what the judge wants. They rarely refuse to approve settlements unless they are truly unfair which by the look of it is not.

TryingToForgeAnewLife Thu 17-May-18 08:17:49

worridmum - yes this was what my solicitor said. She said unfortunately there is not a formula that says how much a pension is worth compared to a house (or ready capital as she called it) and it would make divorces so much easier if there was one.

He has had £26,000 plus £40,000 for himself. He doesn't have it now as he has spent it and increased his credit card debt, so l just hope the Judge agrees that he did have ample capital.... but he chose to go on 3 holidays, purchased new (unnecessary) furniture for his rented house, bought a £700 dog, new sports equipment etc

TryingToForgeAnewLife Thu 17-May-18 08:23:45

I do have it in writing via messenger what he wants and l have given him everything he's asked for

TryingToForgeAnewLife Thu 17-May-18 19:48:32

UPDATE

STBXH has signed the letter that shows the financial split clearer

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