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So worried about supervised contact court order

(33 Posts)
lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 00:56:30

I’m posting for one advice as I a, getting yes,f really worried about this.

Basically finding of fact ensuring for D V has been ordered by the court. There are allegations now being seriously investigated by the police.
My ex has been awarded supervised contact once a fortnight. The supervisory element of the role is that it is his parents who will supervise him NOT a contact centre.

Before I explain why this worries me greatly for a number of reasons, I am pains to point out I don’t have a problem with his parents seeing them (unlike their bullying abusive father) it is that they are not capable or competent in undertaking this responsibility. I feel it should be in a Contact Centre for their Benefit as much as my children’s.

-They are scared of their son and will do whatever he tells them. They believe all the poisonous lies told about my mental health which was struck off as a concern in court this week. It was all made up by him.

- They are not physically or emotionally able to attend to the children’s needs. They can’t do much and are really remiss with health and safety. My children are young but fast and really strong and stubborn. I am terrified there will be an awful accident.

- Prior to my leaving their son they had seen the children twice once in February and once in May. Our youngest child in particular doesn’t really know them at all and cries whenever left with them for a few seconds.

- They will let him do what he wants with the children. One of y bug issues of concern is their father is careless and reckless and negligent with things like car seats, hydration, appropriate clothing, feeding them, letting them roam. (They are 3 and 1 years of age)

How can I make my concerns known. There has been no explanation by the court of their serious responsibility and undertaking. They have had no Safeguarding or competence checks whereas me and my parents have been scrutinised and had to jump through hoops. They could be anyone.

I would be much more comfortable with a contact centre.

This is about keeping my children safe around people who I know are not wake to attend to their needs.
CAFCASS don’t seem remotely bothered. I am at my wits end terrified that something will happen.

What can I do? Can I apply for a variation on the order stating my concerns?
Is it suicide to call CAFCASS?

I feel as though I am being ignored

RedHelenB Sun 22-Oct-17 05:31:41

Having the child in a car seat is law the rest will vary _some parents will be Stuck to their kids like glue others leave them more space to explore. You might find that when you're not in the picture your ex is more responsible towards them.

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 07:33:48

No I'm sorry but he isn't. My mother had to go out with him last time as he bullied her into doing it ( his contact has been reduced because of this) and he didn't buy them anything to eat or drink all day.

You're being very casual about something I know is not a difference in parenting but neglect. He lets them get into dangerous situations.

I wasn't asking for views on my parenting I was asking for advice on how to deal with safeguarding risks

wejammin Sun 22-Oct-17 07:37:22

OP were your concerns raised at the hearing and how were they addressed? How long is contact for? How old are the children?

wejammin Sun 22-Oct-17 07:38:01

Sorry just seen they are 1 and 3

Notreallyarsed Sun 22-Oct-17 07:40:42

I’ve been here OP, and I know how frightening and worrying it is. Unfortunately the court couldn’t give a shit without evidence. It’s not right, but it’s how it is.

The food/drink thing, I used to pack a wee lunch box for DS1 with plenty of fluids and snacks to keep him going. Again you shouldn’t have to but if it helps your kids it’s worth it.

Clothing, send everything they need (wellies, outdoor clothing). It’s highly likely most of it won’t come back if he’s anything like my XH so can you slowly build up spares?

Supervision is the bit you can’t change, and I know how horrible it is, but there’s nothing you can do to change it, bar document anything that does happen.

Ditto document what you provide and what doesn’t come back, what does come back (ie if the food/drinks aren’t used, why not? What was offered instead?)

Basically what I’m saying is I get it, being legally forced to hand your child to someone who doesn’t have the same regard for safety/care you do is utterly soul destroying. I’m sorry you and your kids are having to go through this. Notebooks are your friend here, times, dates, incidents, abuse aimed at you, all of it. Document absolutely everything and make copies.

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 07:48:05

No I'm not willing to do it.
My son already ended up in A &E the last time he looked after them both.
There have been assault allegations made against him regarding one of them.

I started having contractions / tightenings in the court room and they sent me out. Barrister cane back and said this was the best I could hope for.

I wanted a contact centre so this awful worry wasn't there.

I've been assessed to death he hasn't. They don't even appear to know what they're doing.

As a point of principle I am categorically NOT providing anything for him on the day. If he comes without car seats, buggy, food and drink etc then all this needs procuring before he can have them. I'm not actually enabling something I don't agree with.

It's unsupervised contact to me. His parents will not discharge a supervisors duty of care.
This is a dreadful arrangement.

Notreallyarsed Sun 22-Oct-17 07:50:24

They’ve treated you and the kids terribly, I’m so sorry.

Multidimensionalbeing Sun 22-Oct-17 07:50:47

Most supervised contact is supervised by family members in my experience. Maybe talk to CAFCASS again? I'd imagine the difficulty will be not only getting them to agree with your concerns but it sounds like you will never feel comfortable with his parents supervising and the children are very young so you're proposing using a contact centre for years potentially. And unfortunately, your ex will probably have a good case in saying that will prevent him having a 'normal' relationship with his children.

Cokeis Sun 22-Oct-17 07:51:00

The only people you will hurt by not providing snacks or drinks is your kids. Bear that in mind.

Cokeis Sun 22-Oct-17 07:51:49

also if you have a one year old, and you were having tightening/contraction pains, is this baby his and what are the arrangements for contact with it?

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 07:53:41

I can't cope with anymore. I just can't.

Why are the most vulnerable people let down like this to appease a fucking monster?

Where is the regard for my health and well being at 37 weeks pregnant never mind my defenceless Children's.

I'm going to have to go to court and appeal the order. More stress.
I'll have my baby in there at this rate.
I just don't matter

Frouby Sun 22-Oct-17 07:53:52

So sorry for all this lovely.

Are the police investigating the incident re your ds and ex? Would they be able to get involved with regards to the contact in view of the ongoing investigations?

Cokeis Sun 22-Oct-17 07:54:49

What happened wrt the assault allegations?

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 07:59:57

Cokeis I know that but it's his word and his parents against mine. They will lie for him and say he brought everything. Do you think I want them to go without all say but I'm being told by my legal advisors not to provide things because of this. It's a horrible dilemma.

Yes it's his child
I was in hospital over ten times in the last three weeks.We applied for an adjournment. I had letters
From
My GP and my consultant. He refused the adjournment. Tmjgjata how bohered about his unborn child he is.
I was in hospital being monitored for possible early la out and my solicitor rang to say I had to agree to contact. He was allowed to go to my home on my absence and see them with only my mother present whose made harassment and assault complaints to the police. He changed he court order of his own volition and had phone contact removed for harassment so he proved he is not to be trusted.
So on some totally unsubstantiated basis he was allowed six hours a fortnight with them anywhere he wants because
Mummy and daddy are coming along to see their grandchildren.

It's not great is it?
The children have seen them twice this year. They are about as much of a supervisor as my dog.

I'm tearing my hair out.

wejammin Sun 22-Oct-17 08:00:10

How long is the session for OP?

When is the contact supposed to start? You had a barrister so presumably have a solicitor? Please contact them with your concerns.

You need to weigh up the risk between refusing the contact and breaching the order vs allowing contact if you genuinely believe it is unsafe for the children.

Is there a 3rd party that you would agree to supervise contact?

When is the next hearing?

Sorry for all the questions! I am a family lawyer.

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 08:01:00

Yes police are interviewing him for all four allegations.
They can't believe it.

I'm seeing my social worker tomorrow so will get some advice.

The other issue is my son has said he won't go without me so there's another awful scene.

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 08:06:23

I wanted a contact centre.
I found a lovely one that was free and had a cafe in plus was fairly relaxed supervision no note taking etc.
I get that contact centres actually encourage performing deal and best behaviour syndrome but I'd rafter that than risk one of them having an accident.

I have nonissue with them seeing the grandchildren it's the nature of supervisions given the criminal allegations plus the fact he is. It to be trusted.
He told me he'd take them away from me. That or I would have to spend six hours terrified where they were and what he was doing and I couldn't do anything about it. Ignored by the court and dismissed by the judge.

My solicitor is on family leave next week.

I just want them to be safe. To come home not having had all sorts of nearMisses. My son has told the social worker he cries for mummy because daddy doesn't make him feel happy and that he is frightened.

It's for six hours. Anywhere in the local area.

wejammin Sun 22-Oct-17 08:07:19

Has the social worker risk assessed exP's parents?

If there is a SW involved what are their recommendations? Are they doing a s7?

Had exP done a DV perpetrator programme?

In my experience if there is such extreme DV including child ending up in A&E the court would approach this with a lot of caution.

Cokeis Sun 22-Oct-17 08:08:32

What was the incident that led to the child being in A&E and why were SS not involved at that point?

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 09:02:35

I was out shopping (receipts to prove) when he texted me with picture of with a massive bump on his head. I told him to phone 111 and I raced home at four months pregnant. I had to go straight back out and take him to A&E. Have still got the messages.

When I go to A& E they looked blank as there was nothing on the system from 111. I was gobsmacked as he told me he’d called, he admitted he’d never called.

When I met with my new HV she grilled me about it. Fortunately I could prove my lack of involvement but it was awful. I had kept the evidence referred to above and this put me in the clear.

No his parents have not been checked. I’m with a different LA now and mine have said there haven’t got the resources for other checks elsewhere. They are concerned none of the checks done on me and my fs key are being replicated there. So am I. CAFCASS are not. Neither are the Court.

His parents and him have never looked after them for a day.
My children have seen them twice in a year. Las time in May.
Since we left I’ve offered them phone and Skype contact which they ignored didn’t even reply. Not a text or email to see how their precious grandchildren are.

In short they don’t give a shit.

And certainly have had none of their duties explained to them. Or the responsibility.

I just feel like nobody is listening. He’s so careless and reckless and capable and prepared to not be forthcoming with something like a bang on the head if they are out that could be so serious. I have a catalogue of concerns and it’s like an out of body experience.

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 09:03:48

@Cokeis no SS weren’t involved.
I don’t know why

wejammin Sun 22-Oct-17 10:30:18

OP it is very difficult to get a full picture of anything over mumsnet so you really need to speak to your solicitor or if they are on leave a colleague of theirs, before contact is due to start. Or see if the barrister will speak with you (possibly not).

It doesn't sound like the judge has complied with the new practice direction 12j (link if you want it www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/practice_directions/pd_part_12j#25a) regarding interim contact before a finding of fact hearing.

This may give you grounds to appeal the interim order or apply to vary if you are out of time.

Please get on to your solicitor's office. They are the ones who should be listening to you.

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 11:02:45

I’ve read that. I tried to get my solicitor to use it as a basis to appeal the supervised contact forced on my whilst I was in hospital. There are four serious allegations, the police are driving two hundred miles to come and collect my devices to seize the pm for downloading evidence. My young son is likely to be interviewed by Safeguarding as they are so concerned, none of this seemed even relevant, I was gobsmacked,

No joy. With anything.
But he can bully me a,, day long and terrorise me in a ship afterwards the. Get this.

There is absolute,y no justice and absolute,y no point it would seem.

I just seem hampered at every turn

lollipop7 Sun 22-Oct-17 11:03:25

Sorry for typos trust they’re self explanatory

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