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Reporting a historical crime

(31 Posts)
GeorgiePeachie Tue 02-May-17 16:17:30

Does anyone know anything about some of these points.

the perpetrator was 16 at the time victim 13. Would they be tried as an adult now? (Now Mid 20s.)
is it possible to bring charges WITHOUT sending the perpetrator to jail (Although he did break the law/maybe two.)

prh47bridge Tue 02-May-17 19:54:24

If we are referring to a sex crime what matters is their age at the time of the offence.

The sentence is for the judge to determine based on the sentencing guidelines. If the offence would normally carry a jail sentence there is nothing you can do to guarantee that the perpetrator would avoid jail. Without details of the offence it is impossible to say what the likely outcome would be.

ComtesseDeSpair Wed 03-May-17 13:21:56

Whilst, legally speaking, a 13-year-old cannot give consent, the law is intended to protect children from abuse by adult sexual predators rather than to prosecute teenagers who are close in age for having consensual sex – meaning, two young people who want to have sex and don’t feel under pressure. Whether or not a prosecution is taken forward will depend on the context and whether the then 13-year-old wanted to have sex, or was pressurised or forced. If the latter was the case, that will be the aggravating element.

Whether or not a sentence is custodial will depend as prh47 says on sentencing guidelines. It would be unusual for sex between two teenagers close in age to result in a then 16-year-old being jailed, but any force or abuse would impact on sentencing.

GeorgiePeachie Wed 03-May-17 16:45:09

Both super useful comments.

To clarify: it was statutory rape, as well as forced/pressured, plus familial sex crimes (First Cousins). It is also 13 years ago.

Any advice on what evidence would need to be provided in a situation like this?

We also have a semi eye witness - another person who was in the room and heard what was going on and in stead of intervening, left the room. Subsequently has said she heard the victim saying 'No' and left anyway. But do not know if willing to testify...

GeorgiePeachie Wed 03-May-17 16:49:43

Also resulted in a pregnancy, which they have medical records for... but could be argued that its being pinned on the guy...

regardless of the father imo, the key point is the consent issue and the age of the victim.

scurryfunge Wed 03-May-17 16:51:10

If the rape resulted in a pregnancy of a child then there would have been an investigation at the time.

Fragglez Wed 03-May-17 17:06:39

There is no offence of 'statutory rape' in the UK - it's an American term.
If there was no consent then it was rape. End of.

If a 13yo got pregnant then surely some sort of investigation happened at the time? If there is now a child as a result then a DNA test will prove who is the father - so no 'pinning' anything on anyone.

Not sure what you mean by familial sex crimes? It's perfectly legal for first cousins to have a consenting sexual relationship in the UK.

GeorgiePeachie Wed 03-May-17 17:15:20

Ah okay, I was under impression that was also illegal. Fine family thing not an issue for law.

There was no investigation at the time. Child had an abortion overseas so no investigation by the UK. So no evidence like a 13 year old to test paternity.

So so sorry to drip feed, I am looking into whether a legal route to get to the truth is doable.

scurryfunge Wed 03-May-17 18:06:37

Did the offence happen overseas too?

GeorgiePeachie Wed 03-May-17 18:30:25

No happened in the UK. All parties live in the UK. Mother of the victim lives abroad and went to visit and it then transpired 13 year old was pregnant. got the abortion and returned to the UK.

For the benefit of the family it was not discussed or talked about. The now grown up victim feels that this silence continues to protect the perpetrator and wants the truth to be set in stone. He's got away with it.

scurryfunge Wed 03-May-17 19:07:06

Please encourage the victim to report. The fact there is documentary medical evidence at the time will support the investigation. If disclosures were made at the time, that will also assist.

GeorgiePeachie Wed 03-May-17 19:53:48

Would calling 101 be useful in this case?
I am unsure if the victim wants them to be punished, just found guilty and I thing we need more advice on the process here. But I don't know if we should ask a lawyer or 101 (which is where you call to report a rape)

scurryfunge Wed 03-May-17 20:03:19

101 will be the initial reporting process. After that the victim will be interviewed and an investigation will begin. The victim will have little control over any punishment but if they do not cooperate with any investigation then a record will be made of the allegation but there is unlikely to be any further action unless the offender is a massive public risk to vulnerable people.

traviata Wed 03-May-17 20:04:46

why not give Rape Crisis a call?

they will be able to talk you through the process, and will help the victim consider her options.

BollardDodger Wed 03-May-17 21:35:24

To clarify: it was statutory rape,
You're not in the UK, then, as there is no such offence in the UK. Which country are you from?

FinallyReportedHim2 Wed 03-May-17 22:28:09

I found this a useful handbook - explains the whole process.
rightsofwomen.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/From-Report-to-Court-a-handbook-for-adult-survivors-of-sexual-violence.pdf

Beelzebop Wed 03-May-17 22:33:41

From direct personal experience, you will be incredibly lucky if the CPS takes the case on, sorry. That does not mean that you shouldn't go for it though. It does mean you need to think through how it may affect you.

I actually did report, and am happy to talk about what it was like. You have a witness? That's positive!

GeorgiePeachie Thu 04-May-17 10:12:43

Finally Thanks that's a really useful link I will take a look.

Beelzebop I think they just want to get to the truth. and by legally dealing with it, that's undeniable that he's guilty.

But if they don't take the case then we're back at square one with no one saying anything and him having got away with it.

isupposeitsverynice Thu 04-May-17 10:18:06

A witness is a good start in the evidence department. Call 101 and speak to someone, they'll signpost you in the right direction. I figured that even if nothing came of reporting, the fact the report was on file should hopefully act as a deterrent. Turns out I'm one of the "lucky" ones (!) we go to court in a couple of months. I have to say the police have been great, really kind and supportive. Be aware that outside support is less forth coming so you may need to have a good rummage around to find something to support you/the victim. Best of luck to you

FinallyReportedHim2 Thu 04-May-17 19:49:17

I went to trial last December - historic case from over 30 years ago and I was the only victim (so far) - he was found guilty smile, so it can be done. Happy to answer any questions anyone has about the process.

prh47bridge Thu 04-May-17 22:26:41

I am unsure if the victim wants them to be punished, just found guilty

That is not possible. If he is found guilty he will be punished. The punishment will depend on the offence of which he is convicted. If he is convicted of rape he will go to jail. If he is convicted of causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual activity he may avoid jail but that depends on the details.

GeorgiePeachie Fri 05-May-17 10:19:48

Well done Finally That definitely gives us hope. We are looking into the legal process as a formality. I want a formal apology and written confession for the victim and if he refused we'll sue but want to know we've got a decent chance of it going badly for him.

FinallyReportedHim2 Fri 05-May-17 14:42:30

if you want to understand likely punishment look at the sentencing guidelines for the relevant offence(s) and read the appendix about historical crimes if prior to 2003 Sexual Offences Act (as they would be charged with the equivalent offence(s) under the 1956 Sexual Offences Act)
www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Final_Sexual_Offences_Definitive_Guideline_content_web1.pdf

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross Fri 05-May-17 14:53:04

I want a formal apology and written confession for the victim

What does the victim want? Surely this is crucial to establish.

prh47bridge Fri 05-May-17 20:13:11

If he provides a written confession and the authorities are involved he will almost certainly be prosecuted, convicted and punished. I am in favour of people being punished appropriately so would have no problem with this personally but you have repeatedly said that you don't think the victim wants him punished. Be careful you don't start a process that can't be stopped.

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