Wealthy self employed ex

[bakerboo79]

Hi I wonder if anyone can offer some advice.

My ex has his own business, Public limited company. He pays himself around £160 a week and takes the rest in dividend (around 80,000-100,000) I know I used to work for him.

Child maintenance has granted me £7.98 per week for care of our child based on his declared wage. I need to apply for a variation.
Is it possible to get a copy of his books as it is a PLC to prove the dividend he takes ? his mortgage plus cars are more than the wage he declares 10 fold.
I don't want a fortune but this is just ridiculous. I have no idea what to do or how to tackle this.
Please can someone offer some advice as to what to do. I have to respond within 30 days and just feel as though following a horrid relationship which I managed to escaped from he's walking away scot free again.

[JanetBrown2015]

Dreadful man! It would serve him right if you dumped the child on him Monday to Friday so he had to pay for a full time nursery which could cost him an arm and a legl £24k even and you get a full time job. Just because he's male doesn't mean he should not pay for the cost of his child!

[mccuntypants]

No advice but my ex is exactly the same.

[AgentProvocateur]

You could get a copy of the annual report. The accounts with dividends paid are likely to be shown in it.

[ALittleChilli]

Have you tried Companies House? Google Companies House Beta and just search search here name of the company, the accounts should be on there.

[MrsBertBibby]

Tell CMS he has dividend income. They can check with HMRC.

[lizzyj4]

As ALittleChilli notes most companies have to submit full accounts to Companies House (unless they are small, dormant or a micro-entity when they can submit abbreviated accounts, which don't tell you much but wouldn't be relevant to a PLC).You can read/download them free using the Companies House Beta service. Most accounts will show Director's Renumeration as a separate heading, so it is easy to find. If there are several directors it's not always clear who got what though. Also if they are Group accounts it can be more difficult to interpret them.

Unfortunately there a lot of ways for him to get around this - not taking dividends for a couple of years, etc. Unless the CMS are significantly better than the old CSA were - my first husband ran them a merry dance for years with one trick after another. Good luck!

[prh47bridge]

If it is a small company the accounts may not show directors' remuneration. As MrsBertBibby says, CMS can check with HMRC if they know he has dividend income.

[bakerboo79]

Thankyou all so much ! I love mums net makes me feel like I'm not on my own. He's the only director so don't think he could claim dividend had gone to anyone else. So, if i check companies house beta service and get a copy of his annual report proving his dividend then send to CMS as a claimed variation of income. Is this the correct procedure ?

thanks again I hope I can support / offer help i.e. pay it forward soon
x

[BakerBear]

It's the shareholders you need to look at to see if dividend income may be shared out

[bakerboo79]

Hi ladies I've been on and found out the following:

He is listed as the only shareholder holding 75% + of shares.
It is a private limited by shares business
The accounts are there but they are 'abbreviated'
Total exemption small company accounts

but
I can't find anything that is listed as
'directors dividend' or renumeration

would it have a different name ?
x

[bakerboo79]

Sorry ! just read back. yes it's a small company that's why it doesn't show it. What can I do now ? do I still send this stuff to the CMA and ask them to check with HMRC what his dividend is ? Also do I advise that given his mortgage and cars alone he does't take home only what he is declaring ?

sorry ladies and thanks in advance for your help
x

[Maryannesingleton]

Watching with interest, I'm just about to open a case with cms, exactly the same sitution

[JanetBrown2015]

I think MrsBB's advice is best and also supply any evidence to show he is living beyond his means eg if his tax return only shows £10k a year income but he is paying out £20k in rent or has an expensive car that might prove he is hiding money. It will nto be easy. Loads of people hide money from their own business. I don't know why they do. I work very hard full time and would never not pay for my children (their father pays nothing). I don't know why any new women will date these men who pay nothing either - surely it's off putting? It's weird to me that they don't ask or insist on these men paying up for their children.

[andintothefire]

Is there any reference to a dividend in the accounts? Have a look at the accounts over previous years as well. It won't show as a "director's dividend" or "remuneration" - it will be expressed as an amount of dividend declared in the year. If he is the sole shareholder, then he will have obtained all of the declared dividend amount. If there are other shareholders, they will normally have received the dividend divided between them in proportion to their shareholdings (unless there are different classes of shares or some have waived their entitlement - but generally you can assume at least in the first instance that the dividends have been divided in proportion to shareholdings).

If nothing is shown, other posters have given very good advice about next steps.

[WorldTraveller1988]

I am ex-husband and self employed through Ltd Company. Child Maintenance was calculated on the Company's estimated Gross Profit as company is new and does not yet have accounts. As Company Profits can fluctuate wildly from year to year there will be an annual review. Even though self employed I still need to submit a Self Assessment Tax Return each year. So even if not clear from Company accounts what is paid in salary or dividends it should be shown on Self Assessment.

My view is that if ex-wife is struggling then child will also suffer, but at same time maintenance has to be affordable by the paying parent. This is where ex-wife let herself down. Spent a fortune on legal costs chasing unrealistic demands for lifetime maintenance and all assets. At end legal costs were about 30% of family wealth. I would rather that had gone to ex-wife and child as total cost to me is the same. Either she was badly advised or ignored advise. I will never know

[WorldTraveller1988]

CMO website and gov.co.uk website state that all income is to be taken into account when calculating Child Maintenance, salary, dividends, bonus, investment income, rental income.

Self employed can be a bit more difficult as self employed person does not have to pay themselves dividends. However, they would have to explain how they lived on the small salary they pay themselves, but burden of proof seems to be on the receiving parent?

[Traveller123]

Small businesses only have to file abbreviated accounts which are unlikely to reveal Director's Salary or Dividends. However, Self Assessment Tax Returns should show all income. How easy it would be to obtain this information I would not know. If PWC has to rely on HMRC to provide that may be difficult as there is no incentive for HMRC as CM is not taxable so why would HMRC want to spend time helping someone else to increase CM? HMRC are only interested in collecting Taxes.

If PWC considers that NRP lifestyle is inconsistent with declared earnings then PWC must provide proof. Without proof CMS will not apply for a Variation on that ground.

[greenberet]

CMS will contact HMRC to confirm dividend payments.

I am in exactly the same situation X told CMS salary is £12,000 a year dividends and directors loan mean he has had about £200,000 out of company since separated.

HMRC have confirmed additional dividends - Getting this paid is a different matter. X told them he is paying me an additional £640 per month - this was my salary when "employed" by the company.

I have just sent through all the information I have - they keep saying they will get it sorted - you have to continually keep on top of them otherwise in my experience they do nothing.

The system is badly letting mothers and children down. How many mothers have given up trying to get money and are just supporting children themselves.

It makes me so angry the system needs a radical overhaul

[ladylambkin]

Ask them to raise variation for unearned income and they can then trigger the information from HMRC if for any reason this pulls through Nil then you will be asked to provide evidence as will your ex

[Traveller123]

To JanetBrown2015

"I don't know why any new women will date these men who pay nothing either - surely it's off putting? It's weird to me that they don't ask or insist on these men paying up for their children"

Explanation is simple. The less the Ex Husband spends on CM the more he will have to spend on new Girlfriends

[LittleMissSunshine44]

I have exactly the same issue, my ex refuses to pay child maintenance for our son with special needs. He hasn't bothered seeing him for about 9 years now and so I have had to work full time and care for him. The only time I ever got any money was when the CSA got an attachment to his earnings and so he job hopped and then became self employed. When the case moved to the CMS, they went directly to HMRC for his income details. He was earning around 1000 pounds a week and so assessed what he should pay using this figure. He never paid and since then has only declared a very minimal wage to HMRC. He is currently around seven thousands pounds in arrears, two liability orders have been obtained but he still refuses to pay. He sets up companies and then dissolves them when accounts are due to be filed. The CMS say there is nothing they can do. His lifestyle is far better than someone earning a minimal wage. It feels as though he is just being allowed to get away with not paying for our son.

[Traveller123]

To LiitleMissSunshine44

If ex not seen son in 9 years then obviously not interested. Under CMS Variations due to lifestyle are no longer entertained.

If son has special needs make sure you claim all allowable benefits.

When son is older he will realise who cared about him.