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Will question/INHERTITANCE could I sell? where does deceased siblings share go

(46 Posts)
DavidbowieMime Fri 03-Feb-17 11:35:06

A will may stipulate that a property should be kept for a number of years before sale to illustrate you get a better return on a property worth about 100K than having that money sat in the bank.

Two things - is the will wishes legally binding, could the beneficiary do what they want with the property ie sell it - or would they need to go to court or solicitor? On such small estate would probate be needed?

The property is in two parts and quite run down, the top half needs expensive extensive work, its a flat and not really livable due to tiny pretty defunct bathroom and totally rubbish small kitchen. The bottom part is a shop and could probably be rented. The property would fall into disrepair if not tackled soon.
The owner does not see it like this though confused and thinks its all fine and dandy.
I could not afford to renovate, its not in property strong spot I would want to sell and invest in my own house if anything.

Aside from going agaisnt wishes is there anything legally binding there. Also provision is there for a sibling who has sadly deceased what would happen to their share?

DavidbowieMime Fri 03-Feb-17 11:35:53

I forgot to add there are five siblings three were estranged from parent - one has died, and has NO dc. where does that share go ?

Berthatydfil Fri 03-Feb-17 11:43:04

Did they have a will - if so it's according to that if not intestacy rules apply

steppemum Fri 03-Feb-17 11:54:03

I can answer your second question.
The share for the deceased sibling goes to whoever inherited her/his estate. So if they died without a will, then whoever her nearest next of kin were. If they had a will and left everything to Batersea Dogs Home, then their share goes to Battersea.

DavidbowieMime Fri 03-Feb-17 11:56:56

Hi sorry its not clear, there is provision for the deceased sibling in the will, that person died ( the sibling) a few years ago and has no will and no DC no other relatives, the current will I am talking about has not been updated.

So does that mean deceased siblings provision would go to their next of kin which means all the siblings?

DavidbowieMime Fri 03-Feb-17 11:58:35

Basically a relative is near the end, and has not updated their will, I know its not updated and has left provision for the deceased sibling, who died 8 years ago and had no other relatives eg dc or wife and no estate.

Gingernaut Fri 03-Feb-17 12:07:25

It depends on the wording of the will.

If the will just mentions the beneficiaries, then the benefit lapses and gets shared out amongst the remaining beneficiaries.

If the beneficiary left children then it goes to them. Don't know about spouses, sorry.

If the will has some line about the beneficiaries left alive at the time of my death, then it's simply a case of sharing the estate between the remaining beneficiaries.

www.howellslegal.co.uk/news/post/What-Happens-If-a-Beneficiary-of-a-Will-Dies.aspx

Gingernaut Fri 03-Feb-17 12:09:48

Sorry. Meant to say steppemum is wrong.

DavidbowieMime Fri 03-Feb-17 12:13:46

Ok so what I am gleaning is that children not mentioned in the will wont get claim on deceased child's share?
However if any children receive even one thing eg a watch, they are classes as beneficiaries.

If that is the case and provision for the deceased child takes the form of rent from the property as the Will creator feels the property should be rented out - then the remaining children would start getting involved in the actual rent. If I wanted to sell the property if the wishes were not stipulated then this may also get tangled up with dead childs provision and the other siblings....

DavidbowieMime Fri 03-Feb-17 12:17:34

If a beneficiary dies between the point when the Will was made and the death of the testator, under this scenario the beneficiary’s estate will usually have no benefit from the Will

Ok so according to this - the deceased sibling is just written out as it where.

ImperialBlether Fri 03-Feb-17 12:23:21

Did a lawyer write this Will?

If a sibling dies without a Will and without children and is later mentioned in another Will (as you've said here) then their share would go to their next of kin, which would be their siblings.

I doubt a lawyer would agree to drawing up a Will which stipulated what happened to a house after the person had died, unless it was held in a trust. I didn't think I could leave my house to my kids but insist they rent it out for a set number of years.

Gingernaut Fri 03-Feb-17 12:26:29

Yes.

When the testator dies, it will be worth rounding up the beneficiaries at the property in question and discussing the options.

It will definitely be worth taking paid advice about deeds of variation.

IF all the beneficiaries are in agreement and IF they all decide the place needs selling not renting out THEN a deed of variation MIGHT be possible.

From what you've said, you've got four siblings/beneficiaries scattered to the four winds and will probably be unable to agree on anything.

If the will doesn't mention a professional executor, then it's legal to appoint a solicitor to act on behalf of the executor/s.

Of course this will take cash which the solicitor will get from the estate.

Good luck.

DavidbowieMime Fri 03-Feb-17 12:35:22

IF all the beneficiaries are in agreement and IF they all decide the place needs selling not renting out THEN a deed of variation MIGHT be possible

No this wont be possible at all - two siblings are extremely un stable and volitile and have caused huge issues at other family deaths. However I am sure the will would leave them something small as The will writer believes if you do this - then they cant contest the will.

The issue is the dead siblings share - whether this would drag the two estranged dc into the will by accident as it where.

There is likly to be no other assests in the estate in terms of cash, probably just debt on bank OD etc. There is unlikley to be money for a funeral even.

If the estranged siblings get involved we are pretty much guaranteed a life time of arguing over the property.

DavidbowieMime Fri 03-Feb-17 12:37:33

If the estranged siblings start to do this and the only money for a funeral is in the property but the will writer has stipulated that the property must be let out for five years - what on earth would the beneficiary do? How would one even pay for a funeral?

The property locked in a legal battle, the dead siblings share all mixed up, no money for funeral etc etc...and not that much equity in the propery - half being run down!

Gingernaut Fri 03-Feb-17 12:43:28

OK.

There were 5 siblings.

3 were estranged from their father(?).

1 of the estranged has since died.

The 2 remaining estranged have effectively been written out of the will with just token bequests.

The remaining 2 siblings who were not estranged have been willed a pain in the arse property.

Then what the two major beneficiaries decide between themselves will probably be OK.

These two can take legal advice about deeds of variation and/or how to circumvent a will with impossible stipulations with no problems.

ImperialBlether Fri 03-Feb-17 12:45:26

Surely even the daftest in the family would rather sell a run down house and get paid now rather than pay to get it done up to let?

Is this your parent, DavidBowie? They really need to get that Will rewritten. Are they of sound mind now?

iogo Fri 03-Feb-17 12:45:46

I presume the testator is in no position to change anything at this stage?

It all sounds very complicated and I'm no solicitor, but my lay mind seems to think the easiest (and least messy) thing to do would be to sell the property and spilt any proceeds 4 ways.

Is the testator in a situation where a solicitor could visit them to explain that and the will could be amended?

Gingernaut Fri 03-Feb-17 12:47:13

If there were two estranged and the third dead beneficiary was also inherits the pain in the arse property, then it's still up to the remaining two beneficiaries as the third died without children.

DavidBowiemime Fri 03-Feb-17 13:01:52

ginger one of the loved ones died - 8 years ago and was left provision in the will they had disabilities.

Two are fully estranged and nasty pieces of work Will writer will not want them having anything to do with the property at all.

A recent conversation I mentioned vulnerability of the position and Will writer got worked up about possibility of two estranged children setting foot on property let alone benefiting in any way from it. WILL writer said he might talk to local police about it - and had no understanding of how futile that would be sad

However will writer is suffering heart failure is in a bad way and has been for two years, and has money troubles with cash flow etc at the moment.

An appointment to address Will issues was cancelled months ago due to constant hospital stays.

Will writer is disabled, very weak and old but - thinks they will be back driving soon and out and about - will writer cannot actually get outside without aide sad =

My concerns are - will is shit pit of crap, there is no money to pay for funeral - estranged siblings are going to cause as many problems and as much trouble as they can, how on earth am I even going to pay for funeral.

Will writer has said many times they want the property held for 5 years so I understand how much more money you get from that - rather than in bank but as said Will writer doesn't understand the appalling state half of its in.

Sorry I am trying to disguise details here as well as its so personal and dm hangs round. sad

DavidBowiemime Fri 03-Feb-17 13:04:59

is the testator in a situation where a solicitor could visit them to explain that and the will could be amended?

yes and no, goes into hospital at short notice for long ish stays.

Has no money to pay for solicitor.

I am happy to pay and set up visit to make it all easier - EVEN IF HE DOESNT LEAVE A THING TO ME BUT MY DC OR THE CLEANER but Will Writer doesn't really talk to me about it - except that they care very much where property ends up and not to the estranged DC.

My worst nightmare is not being able to pay for funeral, left with will stipulating its held for five years and then my siblings getting drawn in and they for the fun of seeing me loose my inheritance would draw out court battles for years. sad

Gingernaut Fri 03-Feb-17 13:09:51

Get yourself to a solicitor who deals with contentious probate.

If you don't want the estranged siblings near the problem the will needs to stand.

If it is declared invalid, then the two estranged siblings get one quarter each AFTER all debts (including funeral expenses) are paid.

Or, possibly for ease and speed, having the will set aside could be the way forward.

Make sure the property is secure.

Seek legal advice.

titchy Fri 03-Feb-17 13:11:10

See here:

www.howellslegal.co.uk/news/post/What-Happens-If-a-Beneficiary-of-a-Will-Dies.aspx

So the deceased sibling's share is ignored, and the will distributed as if they had never lived, ie to the two siblings, who can then decide what to do with the property themselves. Unless there was anything silly in the will like trusts.

ImperialBlether Fri 03-Feb-17 13:18:03

If the will-writer can't bear to have two of their children even entering the building then the money shouldn't be left to them, surely? Is that what they meant when they spoke about leaving them something little so they couldn't contest?

Who would they leave the house to? One person or more? And do those people communicate and are they civil and reasonable?

Gingernaut Fri 03-Feb-17 13:21:50

There is no estate while the testaor is still alive.

If he's compos mentis, speak to a solicitor about going to the hospital to meet the will writer to draw up a new will.

If not, all you can do is take legal advice yourself and the shit hits the fan when the will writer (testator) dies.

DavidBowiemime Fri 03-Feb-17 13:23:55

I am so sorry this is all so confusing. grin

Imerpial as far as I am aware it would be left to me, with something for other child who is half estranged as it were but not fully like other two.

There is no money as far as I am aware. There were some shares but will writer has been selling off to keep going in lean times.

I assume house would be left to me, but this will be contested and if any way estranged siblings could get hook in they will.

Estranged siblings have behaved atrociously in past when family member died, emptied out houses etc and because they acted so swiftly no one could stop them, it was all done and dusted, police couldnt get involved it was civil but then people involved had no money for solicitors so estranged siblings basically got away with loads of stuff.

Will writer knows all this but has still left situation in precarious way. I have no idea where the will is - its certainly not with solicitor and is likely to be somewhere in choatic flat. I may not even get there first i dont live near by, estranged siblings could and could just rip it up.

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