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ex won't agree to ANY consent order

(30 Posts)
NAR4 Mon 18-Apr-16 18:01:29

Went to mediation for over a year, to v expensive mediator which ex chose. Finally came to an agreement for consent order, but he has changed it (he calls putting dozens of clauses which will be very expensive to me, tweaking). He has flatly refused over the last yr to agree to anything other than what he had his solicitor draw up. He has now gone back to our mediator and requested a MIAMS (I think that is what it's called), so he can take me to court. What on earth happens now? My solicitor said court will cost me a minimum of £30,000, which I don't have. Even if he doesn't take me to court, I can't move house, rent, sell, or have anyone move in, because the house is still in joint names until consent order is done. He is deliberately stopping me from moving on with my life and getting away with it. Any ideas welcome.

Collaborate Mon 18-Apr-16 18:21:34

1.Will your solicitor agree to take it out of the pot at the end of the case? Is there at least £60k of liquid assets?

2. Does your husband have the means to pay your legal fees as they fall due? If so, the court has the power to order him to pay.

3. Sort out how much you can afford to pay, and target that at the areas of work you'll need help on (e.g. advice on settlement, advocacy, preparation of documents).

Pisssssedofff Mon 18-Apr-16 20:07:31

Oh go to court, stop wasting money on it, put it in front of s judge and save yourself £30,000

Eustace2016 Mon 18-Apr-16 21:31:21

The tweaking version may not be too bad. What are the main tweaks? We could give you an idea on here of whether they are okay or not. Also most relevant question is how much money is at stake and what is the difference between your offer and his financially? YOu don't want to spend that difference on lawyers.

If you can't agree then yes it goes to a court hearing and the judge decides which is risky for both sides.

NAR4 Tue 19-Apr-16 09:44:06

Ex wants to keep all his pension and all our savings and sign the house over to me. Savings are in an off set mortgage account, so it would mean starting the mortgage from scratch. It works out that I am about £7000 worse off than if we went 50/50 on everything, but we both want a clean break, so I agreed. Ex has now said (the tweaks) he will only stay on the mortgage (I will be paying it all, as I do now, but mortgage company won't agree to him coming off it) until youngest is 11 and wants me to take out insurance against none payment of any of the household bills and the mortgage (his name isn't on anything except the mortgage and it would cost a fortune to do, which he knows I can't afford) and to also give him copies of any bank statements, mortgage statements, savings accounts etc, so he can see if he feels I am doing everything I can to pay the mortgage off, to release him from it.

I only work part time, as I have 5 children (all with ex), so am not earning a lot of money. After paying all the bills, there really isn't a lot left. I'm not complaining because at least I can make ends meet, but ex has a lot more money and is seemingly deliberately making this divorce cost the earth. eg he won't even talk to me when he collects the children, he'll only communicate anything (even such things as appointment times he wants for school parents evenings) via our solicitors. My own solicitor is sick to death of it now and of my ex's solicitor constantly saying she is still waiting further instruction from her client, which often goes on for months following mine replying to something ex has had his solicitor write about.

The legal system seems to work, he who has the most money gets what they want. Ex does have the money to pay my legal fees, but my solicitor said they never award costs if it goes to court, even if ex is clearly just wasting everyones time.

TheFormidableMrsC Tue 19-Apr-16 10:24:32

Let him take you to court. Represent yourself. I did it. This is just his wa of controlling you and the only way you are going to stop this is to take some control back. The court will decide for you. Mediation for a year is unreasonable and ridiculous. It is never going to work. I am surprised your mediator has allowed this to continue aside from the huge amount of fees they are getting. My mediator agreed that it was pointless continuing after only 3 sessions. I made the application and the Judge made the ruling. I will not pretend it isn't stressful and time consuming but it was the best thing I could have done. Good luck OP flowers.

PS : I would apply for a costs order anyway, you do sometimes get it.

Pisssssedofff Tue 19-Apr-16 11:21:37

Ok I would disengage from the Bugger. I've stopped replying to the bullshit from mines solicitors, in fact I even got rid of the solicitor which may or may not be a mistake but as you say it burns through money the resident parent simply doesn't have.
He can't make you get insurance, I'd be tempted to agree to it and then not bother tbh.
No way should it be a 50/50 split, I can't believe you're agreeing to that .... My ex mil got 70/30 and they had no kids

Collaborate Tue 19-Apr-16 11:31:29

The legal system seems to work, he who has the most money gets what they want. Ex does have the money to pay my legal fees, but my solicitor said they never award costs if it goes to court, even if ex is clearly just wasting everyones time.

That's different to what I'm on about. Just google "Legal Services Order".

Familylawsolicitor Tue 19-Apr-16 14:58:07

If a broad agreement has been reached in correspondence it might be possible to agree to ask the court simply to make an order about the tweaks. Yes do post the "tweaks"

Eustace2016 Tue 19-Apr-16 15:09:20

You get 100% of the house but subject to a mortgage may not be too bad as you need to house children and if there is equity in the house. So it sounds like you are nearly in agreement and the only real issue is he will be kept on the mortgage which basically means he cannot get on with his own life and cannot get another property or move on which is massive disadvantage. I was very lucky that I earned more than my ex (we have 5 chidlren too) and always worked full time and he got by the way about 60% of the assets as the lower earner - enough to buy an unmortgaged house and lots of cash on top of that.

If the mortage issue is the big one have you got a relative such as a parent who could take over the mortgage liability with you now and let your husband off it or coudl you get a full time job enough to support the mortgage alone? His desire to see bills etc is too nosy but it all comes back to this big issue that his life and bability to get a mortgage is totally on hold as long as he has to remain on the mortgage on what will be your house.

NAR4 Tue 19-Apr-16 16:48:34

Ex had to seek out whether or not he could get a mortgage, whilst still on the one for this house, while at mediation. He can, so it isn't stopping him getting on with his life. Even working full time I would never earn enough money to get the mortgage company to let me have the mortgage in my own right. They have said I need to be earning a minimum of £40,000.

If I agreed to the consent order with all the 'tweaks', my ex would change it. He hasn't changed it to make it fairer to him, he has changed it knowing I couldn't afford to agree to the 'tweaks'. It is all about control and has been throughout our relationship, which is why he is now an ex.

NAR4 Tue 19-Apr-16 16:53:44

Mortgage company have said that they will not allow someone else to go on the mortgage instead of ex. My parents are retired anyway, so could not help out. My ex on the other hand, has wealthy parents, who could easily buy him his own house, with the money they would be leaving to him in inheritance, so I'm pretty sure they would help if he needed it.

If I said he could have everything and I would just walk away, he would refuse to take me off the mortgage still because it gives him control over me. It's not about the money. Ultimately he doesn't have to agree to anything unless I suddenly become rich and take him to court, because I do not want to self represent against a manipulative, lying, psychopath.

traviata Tue 19-Apr-16 17:07:02

if you have actually reached an agreement, but he won't agree to turning it into an order, there is an alternative procedure.

It is called an application to show cause.

Essentially you would be demanding that he must justify why the judge should not simply make an order in the terms of your agreement.

If, however, you have not quite got all the details agreed, this would be too risky.

Instead I would make him a final open offer - open in the sense that the judge can see it right from the start, it's not 'without prejudice' - and just go through the court process on the back of it. You might choose to deal with everything yourself except for final hearing, to minimise costs.

Kr1stina Tue 19-Apr-16 17:10:27

I'm not an expert so feel free to ignore me

But doesn't it depends on the equity that in the house compared to the value of the savings and pension .

Eg it's not a good deal if he gets £100k in pension and £100k in savings and she gets £50k of equity in the house .

Also surely her ability to get a well paid job the same as him is compromised by her having taking 5 maternity leaves with his children and then being the RP for 5 children ?

So why would you be settling for 50:50? Unless all your children are out of full time education and living independently .

Eustace2016 Tue 19-Apr-16 17:12:00

Usually if you are on one mortgage it means you can borrow less or nothing on another house. He might need to borrow a large amount for a new house and being on the old mortgage may stop that but it sounds from what you say that that is not the issue at all; just that he wants control.

I agree with traviata's suggestions. You could take his amended draft order with the tweaks and take out those tweaks you don't like and put your version in the open offer and then just push for a court hearing ASAP without using a lawyer. If the sum in dispute is £7000 that is actually a tiny sum to go to court over though so I would not incur legal costs if I were you.

Arcadia Tue 19-Apr-16 19:13:53

You can do it yourself just using a barrister through the direct access scheme for the actual court hearings (I shouldn't recommend that as I am a Solicitor!).

Collaborate Tue 19-Apr-16 20:57:10

You can't do a notice to show cause. Aside from anything else, a mediated agreement is not binding until confirmed by solicitors for both parties.

traviata Wed 20-Apr-16 09:33:40

fair enough Collaborate, I had missed the mediation element.

NAR4 Mon 25-Apr-16 17:44:15

We have a consent order that was provisionally written upon both our agreeing the terms, at mediation. My ex had his solicitor make some changes which I didn't agree to, so I refused the changes and requested it was written up as agreed at mediation. A different consent order was written up by my ex's solicitor 2 more times. My ex has now said he is withdrawing the consent order and will not agree to anything.

If I go to court is the judge likely to simply say the consent order we both originally had written up and agreed at mediation, should be stuck to and then enforce that? Would ex be able to push up costs and the time involved by arguing he doesn't agree, or does the judge just make their own decision regardless, straight off? Does anyone know a rough guide on timescales involved, how many times I would be likely to have to go to court, any costs involved etc. I emailed my solicitor for these and she simply said she would contact ex's solicitor again to see what was going on and that the timescales for taking it to court were very lengthy.

Court really does seem to be the only way to take this forward at the moment.

Collaborate Mon 25-Apr-16 18:28:13

The judge will not be made aware of the mediation agreement. It is entirely "without prejudice", meaning that until you have a concluded agreement (which for mediation means solicitors confirm, post mediation, consent), it is meaningless.

People would not be encouraged to concede ground in mediation without the security of being able to go to their lawyer and be told whether the agreement is good or bad.

NAR4 Tue 26-Apr-16 09:57:38

Thankyou Collaborate. It's sooo frustrating that he won't just decide what he wants and let us both move on with our lifes. Mediation seems more and more so, to be a waste of time and money, for me.

Kr1stina, it isn't about getting as much as I possibly can, it's about getting enough to move on with my life. It works out that I am slightly worse off than 50:50, but it is still a good deal for me. It is the only way I will ever be able to buy my house and not have to move with the children into expensive rented accommodation. I am also extremely unlikely to ever be able to afford a mortgage on anything else, should I not be able to keep this house. I don't want any of his pension as I want no conection to him, as soon as possible (my youngest will be 18, in 15 years).

Pisssssedofff Tue 26-Apr-16 10:41:15

You do want his pension please please don't let that go. This is why I skipped mediation and went straight to court. To get things moving and they've still stalled

Kr1stina Tue 26-Apr-16 11:38:03

You have contributed to his pension , why on earth don't you want any of it ?

And it's not about getting as much as you can, it's about your children and their needs, now and in the future . And I'm sorry, you can't have no connection with him because you have children .

It's easy to take the moral high ground and say " oh I'm just happy to have the clothes on my back " but you have your children - their future and their education - to think of .

Pisssssedofff Tue 26-Apr-16 12:29:41

Believe me he won't be thinking that way, his future is secure ... You've come this far keep fighting

Kr1stina Tue 26-Apr-16 13:13:27

Getting a share of the pension that you have both paid into doesn't mean that you have to queue up together at the post office when you are 70.

It means that the Value of the pension is assessed , together with all the other marital assets , and divided fairly . The starting point for this is 50:50 but it's often more to the RP. Your children are very young .

And I'm sorry but nothing magic happens at the age of 18, unless your children are in the tiny minority of kids who are living independently by then and fully self supporting . Most 18 YO are in education / training and live with a parent .

I have a friend who signed up for such a deal . When her youngest child was 18 she had to sell the family home, give her ex half ( he had never paid anything towards his children ) and move to another city . Because she couldn't afford 3 bedroom house/ flat ( for her, her 18yo and 20 student kids ) with half the capital .

She had to get a new job ( not commutable) and one kid had to move college . Teenagers don't like moving away from all their friends . It wasn't fun .

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