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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Legal matters

Our stuff at PILs', they won't let us have it back.

66 replies

MilchandCookies · 20/03/2016 19:49

The stuff is actually gold and silver coins worth a considerable sum. They have always been kept in their safe, as DH and I were in rented a while with nowhere to keep them. And then there are the savings books for accounts FIL opened in DCs' names, but refuses to let us have the books for.

Narcissistic arsehole FIL summoned DH to come and pick the coins up, saying he no longer wanted to be burdened by them. When DH arrived, FIL decided he wasn't going to let DH have them and took the opportunity to scream and shout at him instead. (We are in the process of going no-contact.) He laughed at the suggestion DH take the savings books. He said if he was going to save money for the children, it was going to be completely on his terms and had nothing to do with us.

When DH felt that FIL was going to get violent, he left, empty-handed. And very shaken.

How do we get the coins and the savings books? We can prove we are the legal owners of the coins, and as the accounts are in the children's names we are the legal owners of the books, too. But if he won't let us have them back, what can we do?

Many thanks.

OP posts:

Report

LottieDoubtie · 20/03/2016 19:51

No idea re the coins (Sorry)

But surely as the childs parents you can report the savings books to the bank as 'stolen' which lets face it they have been. They should issue new books and the others would be void presumably.

ABetaDad1 · 20/03/2016 19:57

Is there any chance they actually sold the silver and gold at one of those money for gold shops when prices were very high a few years ago and have emptied and closed the accounts and this is the real reason they won't let you have it back.

They no longer have it.

ABetaDad1 · 20/03/2016 19:59

Will a solicitors letter and a threat to go to a small claims court make them cough up? If you are going NC it hardly is going to make the situation worse.

Icanseeclearly · 20/03/2016 20:00

You aren't the owners of the accounts? Fil presumably opened the accounts as signatory on your dc behalf (the same way you would if you had opened them) fil is quite right on that one.

No idea about the coins unless you have a bill if sale or have them on your insurance policy?

ABetaDad1 · 20/03/2016 20:04

I assume you have no receipt from the PILs for the coins?

You need to engineer an email conversation itemising what you left with them and get them to acknowledge they have them - even a refusal to return them is evidence you can use as an acknowledgement they have them.

MilchandCookies · 20/03/2016 20:05

I tried to report the books as lost, but I stupidly told the bank the truth -- that we didn't think he would give them to us, so could I please do as Lottie suggested and have them voided and new ones issued. But they said that wasn't possible as they knew where the books were ... So maybe yes, we'll have to report them as stolen.

I don't think they have sold them. I haven't actually laid eyes on them for many years, and neither has DH, but FIL doesn't need the money and up until a year ago had a civil relationship with us. The bank accounts are still being paid into. We got the bank to send us a full statement.

Ok, a solicitor's letter sounds like a start.

OP posts:

DontCareHowIWantItNow · 20/03/2016 20:08

You aren't the owners of the accounts? Fil presumably opened the accounts as signatory on your dc behalf (the same way you would if you had opened them) fil is quite right on that one.

^ this. What makes you think they are yours?

MilchandCookies · 20/03/2016 20:08

X-posts.

We (and BILs) were sent an itemised letter by FIL detailing every coin and which ones belonged to which brother + family. So we do have proof as such that they are ours and that he has them.

The bank has told me that the savings books are our property as the children's parents. He opened the accounts as a grandparent, but doesn't have the power to empty or close the accounts. Only we can do that, but only with the books.

OP posts:

00100001 · 20/03/2016 20:11

If was me, I'd really just leave it. Let them keep the coins.

Not what most would do, I know.

But, they will have to live with the fact they have stolen off their own child. You guys will have learned more about the as people.

I really wouldn't bother.

00100001 · 20/03/2016 20:12

As for the kids accounts. Leave them as well.

If he can't take the money, then, let him be. He'll more than likely die beofe you, and then you can get the books.

MrsWigster1991 · 20/03/2016 20:14

They are worth a considerable sum. I wouldn't leave them for my PILs

MadamDeathstare · 20/03/2016 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shutthatdoor · 20/03/2016 20:14

Tbh I'd go to a solicitor about the coins but leave the account books.

You haven't paid into them so it is no loss to you. Especially if you are going NC.

Have you told them you are going NC?

Shutthatdoor · 20/03/2016 20:16

I'd leave the books too.

You have paid nothing towards them. Seems a little off to get them, have the money then go NC.

Shutthatdoor · 20/03/2016 20:18

Ops just repeated myself. Thought it hadn't posted.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/03/2016 20:19

If he is the trustee on the savings accounts there is absolutely nothing you can do - and the bank should not be giving you any account information without the trustee's express permission.

If you are the trustee the bank should process them as if they were lost provided you can evidence you are the trustee by providing suitable ID.

As for the coins I'd suggest consulting a solicitor.

Wolpertinger · 20/03/2016 20:20

Kids accounts, I'd leave. If they are paying in, and can't take money out that's fine surely.

However the coins I'd want back. Are they part of an inheritance? Is he likely to sell them off or just sit on them to piss you off. You could try waiting until he dies but he could live a long time and of course they may be long gone by then.

Money spent on a solicitor consultation might be useful here. Even if they don't send the first letter they can help you phrase it and guide you along.

MilchandCookies · 20/03/2016 20:29

We could leave the coins. Dh even suggested it when he got home. One day we'd get them back, we hope, and then we wouldn't have to worry about them anymore. We don't currently need the money.

The books are more difficult. If we got the books, we would be closing the accounts so FIL couldn't pay in anymore. We would then open new accounts and continue saving for the DC ourselves.

If we don't have the books, FIL continues paying in until DC are 25. There will be a lot of money in there then. The bank told me the then-adult DC can access the money by reporting the books lost themselves, which means they won't have to go crawling to FIL if they want the money. That is FIL's plan though, we assume. (He controls everyone via money.)

We don't feel comfortable letting him continue to save for them though. We don't want his money. But we can't stop him without the books.

OP posts:

cranberryx · 20/03/2016 20:43

Do you have proof of ownership for the coins? Aka the certificates of any kind (when we bought gold we got a certificate of authenticity)

I would then go to a solicitor, failing that phone the police as it is theft. Pure and simple.

Also, report the books as lost or close the account, if you have the account number and your DC's birth certificate it won't be hard to do. I would think!

Your FIL sounds very EA, NC seems wise!

MadamDeathstare · 20/03/2016 20:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cleanandclothed · 20/03/2016 20:50

If the accounts are a 'bare trust' which it sounds like they are, then the dc will have an absolute right to the funds at 18, no matter who has the books. They would need to know which bank to approach though. In the meantime, I think the bank has informed you incorrectly about the books being yours, as I presume FIL is trustee.

How did the coins come to be your DH's? Were they a gift from PIL?

RandomMess · 20/03/2016 20:51

Just walk away from it all.

The DC can get the money later on if they want to.

You will feel much more at ease letting go of it all and writing it off.

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MilchandCookies · 20/03/2016 20:56

No, we don't have those certificates didn't know such things existed

The coins were all bought by FIL's father and are kept in the safe. Each son was given a coin for various achievements/milestones (graduation, marriage, birth of children etc). DC also have one each. So we have seven gold and five silver. But they've never been physically given to us, we were just told that another coin had been chalked up to us.

FIL also has form for not letting us have the necessary paperwork for anything financial, couched in terms of not wanting to burden us with burocracy and he'd take care of it. We have since woken up and realised he was using this to his advantage.

OP posts:

MilchandCookies · 20/03/2016 21:01

Ok I'm going to talk to the bank about who is trustee. I'm sure it's us, but I may be wrong.

I am starting to think walking away from this nightmare is the best thing. We have been the least-contact of the brothers for a year now, and in general our lives are much more peaceful than theirs. They are hounded and berated regularly by FIL for any and all perceived slight, and it's destroying their marriages

OP posts:

00100001 · 20/03/2016 21:06

Walking away really is the best solution.

Its only money. FIL can't take it with him,and if this his way of exerting control, then take the control away from him :)

Flip

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