Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.
Ex wants holiday hotel and flight details(24 Posts)
I left my ex seven years ago due to DV, particularly because of the control and bullying. Our DD (who is with me 80% of the time) is now 11 and I regularly take her on holiday to places like France, Spain, Turkey.
When we separated, we both signed a legal agreement outlining things like contact, maintenance, selling our house. It included a clause that we would let the other know when we were taking DD out of the country. He didn't keep to the agreement around things such as maintenance and selling the house, and has previously said he no longer considers it binding.
By and large, I have told him when we go abroad, but I'll admit I have left it late on occasion and once forgot to tell him when we visited France for a few days.
Last month I received a letter from his solicitor saying I had a duty to tell him dates and destinations, and suggesting we sign a parenting contract. I wrote back apologising that I hadn't always told him and that I would do so in future. However, I didn't feel it was necessary to sign a contract. In that letter, I included dates and destinations for our two holidays this year.
He wrote back (not his solicitor) saying his solicitor has advised him that I am obliged to tell him my itinerary, as well as hotel and flight details. Do I have to do this?
No, of course you don't
And I wouldn't in case the twat turns up
As far as I know it is just dates and destinations. In a normal situation where the NRP is reasonable then you might tell them the hotel.
If you have anything written down where he said he no longer considers the agreement binding, I would send a copy of that.
Thanks for your quick responses. That was my gut feeling and he has form for being a twat. The information on gov.uk is pretty vague.
I did get the sense that the solicitor (from a firm specialising in DV, the irony!) was writing the letter because he was insistent, but there was no legal backing to it. When the reply came from him, it did make me think he didn't have a leg to stand on.
I do have the letter where he said he no longer considers our original agreement binding. I'll remind him of that.
Do you have a residence order? If not, then you need to get his permission to take the children out of the U.K.
Usually if you have a court order that details international travel, it does say that accommodation and flight/travel details are to be supplied. Not sure what he means by itinerary - I don't think it would be normal to detail where you were planning to go each day!
No, no court order. Just this original Heads of Terms agreement that the solicitors drew up.
I also can't see the need for more details after seven years of dates and destination being enough.
I assume he could just argue that he will only give permission on the basis that you provide the details.
You only need written permission if it's more than two weeks (fairly sure on this but you might want to check).
Does he have contact details for a family member? If yes, tell him that he can contact the person in the case of needing to get hold of you.
No, if there is no residence order, you need permission from everyone else that has PR.
If you have a residence order then you can go for up to 28 days without needing permission.
www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad you are supposed to get permission from the other parent
It doesn't matter what you signed in the past as legally he needs to give permission or you go to court to get it ok'd
Yes he could withhold permissioif you don't give the details and you need unequivocal permission for each trip abroad unless you have a residence order.
You can be stopped at the point of exit and it considered child abduction a criminal offence if he wanted to be really difficult
He has never formally given me permission, I've just informed him and that's been that.
it's a slightly strange requirement in some ways. I'm just trying to imagine how they would stop you leaving. If he contacted the Border Agency saying 'I know she's travelling to this place on this day, but hasn't told me the flight number or which hotel they're staying at', I struggle to see that they would see that as potential child abduction.
I've never been asked for a letter or proof at an airport or other border. I do get asked about why DD and I have different second names, so usually carry her birth certificate.
On balance, I'll write and suggest we stick with our current agreement, but not expand it to hotels and flights. If he then says he won't give permission, I guess I would have to apply to the court. Again.
There has been at least one instance of this sort of thing every year since I left, usually over the winter months. He normally starts being more reasonable once a court date is in the offing and we've managed to avoid court orders to date.
Where there are issues of control and bullying I'd be very reluctant to give out a full itinerary, I'd be concerned he'd maliciously contact the hotel to cancel the booking or something.
I think what you're suggesting is quite reasonable and I wouldn't be prepared to do any more than that based on his history of abuse.
I would look at it this way: In an age where, unfortunately, there have been international incidents of e.g. Terrorism etc, and your child was out of the country with their other parent ad something happened in the country they were going to, wouldn't you want to know where they were in the event something happened?
Or if there was a plane crash? These events are extremely unlikely to happen to your child, however news from countries they may be travelling to are not likely to be out of the norm, so to not even know where they are staying or what flight they are on sounds unreasonable to me.
I understand that you might be anxious about giving out that kind of information, but equally I understand as a parent that I wouldn't want my child going out of the country and me not knowing where to.
I take your point wannaBe, but such incidents are just as likely in this country. He does know which country we're going to. Also, DD and I both have our phones with us.
The abuse was pretty bad and based on previous experiences, I'm not convinced this latest suggestion is due to concern for DD.
Why would you return to court if he insisted on hotel and flight details? I'd bet my last tenner that yes you'd get permission to go but it would be on the basis that you provided the information.
Actually he could ring the police and say that you are taking the children out the country without his consnent which is under the law, child abduction and the police can put in place an "all ports alert" which would stop you at the point of exit from the country. He probably doesn't know he could do that but it does and can happen and his lawyer may know so it is a risk if you go when he hasn't consented.
I think you've been lucky to get out the country without a letter of consent when you have different surnames and I hear that this is being tightened up.
It's pretty standard for parents to know where their children are going to be when you go abroad and like fourmore says, if it went to court you'd almost certainly be ordered to provide the info. What are you worried he will do with the info?
I actually don't think it's that unreasonable to expect that information. I'd certainly want to know where my child was staying in the case of any emergencies.
DS goes away with his dad and I always ask for hotel and flight details. I'm not controlling - it is simply because if there is an incident I will know whether my world has ended or not. XH had always given me the details without fuss.
Can you imagine hearing on the news (and this is just an example) that Flight 1234 to Cyprus has crashed and knowing that there is a possibility that your child was on that plane? Can you imagine the terror while trying to find out if they were or not? It could take hours to have it confirmed. Now imagine hearing that when you know your child is on Flight 1235.
Yes it's extreme, but it's also a real worry for many people these days.
I take on board what you're saying, but this is more about it being in the context of many years of bullying and control. The travel information has been fine for the last seven years and the solicitor didn't suggest these additional details. His abuse hasn't stopped since I left, and it's been a constant battle to keep him out of my life.
He constantly looks for ways to get more involved in my life and then pass comment. There is a strong pattern here and I know from bitter experience that if I agree, it will then be followed by more and more intrusion.
I'm not worried about what he'll do with the information. I just wish he would leave me alone and stop constantly looking for fights to pick.
I really do understand where you're coming from but I really wouldn't let this end up in court. It would be a stressful waste of time.
Maybe it would be worth going over your agreement with a solicitor, from your point of view. It seems to be going out of date as far as legal requirements for travel are concerned and also from what he considers binding.
I expect that with some people abducting their children, and some going off to trouble zones and terrorism hitting the headlines, the immigration people will become less relaxed about the paperwork.
There may be some way of not jumping to attention at his demands and stringing it out or kicking the current crisis into the long grass until next year..........
Join the discussion
Please login first.