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Two neighbours have decided we will have traffic wardens and permits and we have no say?

(22 Posts)
LoveArt Tue 15-Dec-15 01:46:17

We live on a private development of around 40 houses with lots of equally owned (and paid for) land.

Two of the neighbours volunteered as directors (unpaid) of the residents and sent letters in the week telling us we will be having traffic wardens and parking permits next year. They will also decide how many permits we are allowed.

Apparently only they can decide if this will happen. Is this correct they have the power to decide over anyone else as directors?

Really appreciate any help on this- thank you

differentnameforthis Tue 15-Dec-15 05:12:13

I don't think anyone can appoint themselves as directors of a private development where 40 households have an equal say over anything..

and it is certainly dubious to decide that they are the ones to do it, as surely, it should be voted upon?

You need to form a committee, hold meetings, get things minuted, & put names forward for nominations & then vote between the households, surely. All the stages will minuting.

2 people cannot suddenly decide that they get all the power & the rest of you get to do as you are told.

differentnameforthis Tue 15-Dec-15 05:16:15

In other words, they cannot appoint themselves as directors just because they want to be. And I would think, if they do, because they didn't give you an opportunity to vote/decide that they will speak for you, you don't have to do what they suggest!

I will admit that this comes from being part of small committees, I don't know what the legal standing is

Do you have any sort of management company for the development?

Choughed Tue 15-Dec-15 05:30:04

Are they directors of the freehold company?

LineyReborn Tue 15-Dec-15 05:36:20

I'd have thought that this - a private parking scheme with parking permits and presumably penalty tickets - would be unenforceable anyway. Only the Council can enforce parking tickets, and the Council wouldn't introduce a parking scheme in such a manner - there have to be legal notices and some sort of consultation.

Are you all freeholder or leaseholders?

It all sounds a bit confusing tbh.

TheSkiingGardener Tue 15-Dec-15 05:37:50

Sounds similar to our development. What is the management arrangement. Is there a management company that makes decisions or do you have the right to manage (and appoint your own company)?

Whichever, they can't just appoint themselves as Directors. They would need to be elected. Any parking scheme involving traffic wardens would have to be council implemented and would involve a consultation exercise.

prh47bridge Tue 15-Dec-15 12:37:25

Only the Council can enforce parking tickets

Not true. The law has changed. Provided proper notices are displayed the owner of the land (or a company acting on their behalf) can enforce charges against the registered keeper of any vehicle parked on the land. The "traffic wardens" would have the same status as car park attendants. They could monitor vehicles parking on the land and attach notices to any vehicle parked without permission.

they can't just appoint themselves as Directors

No they can't. However where the estate is managed by a company owned by the residents it is not uncommon to find that there are few residents willing to become directors so any volunteers are elected immediately.

OP - Assuming these people are the only directors of the company that manages the estate and assuming the parking restrictions will only apply to common areas (unadopted roads, etc.) they are entitled to act as you describe. If the other residents are unhappy with this proposal they should make their feelings known to the directors. If that doesn't have the desired effect there should be a mechanism for calling a Special General Meeting to pass votes of no confidence in each of the directors and elect new directors. Failing that it is certainly possible to replace the directors at the AGM but, unless they have reached the end of their term, it will be necessary to propose a motion of no confidence in each director.

ChinaSorrows Tue 15-Dec-15 12:40:12

We have permits and wardens
We voted
The committee then sent letters to all residents
The committee are elected.

It's all very civilised! grin

lifesalongsong Tue 15-Dec-15 12:43:02

My company law is a but rusty but aren't directors appointed rather than elected and if there's some kind of limited company it will have rules that govern this process and what the company can do.

Do you have access to the legal set up of the company? I assume if they are using the word director there must be a legal company somewhere

LBOCS2 Tue 15-Dec-15 12:44:28

It depends what your TP1 says. If you're all members of a management company (equal shareholders) then yes, as long as they've followed the guidance set out in the mems and arts of the company when appointing themselves, they are the people who can make decisions on the whole estate - that's the point of having directors. Much like Tesco; you can be a shareholder but only the directors have a say in how it's run. They will either be self managing or employing an agent, who they will provide the instructions to carry out this sort of thing (as instructing client) although the agent will deal with the administrative and legal side of it.

If there is no mgt co, there may be a residents' association - probably not enshrined in the TP1 but if it's a recognised RA (with over 50% participation) then if you employ an independent managing agent then they make take instruction from them as representatives of the residents on the estate.

Whatevva Tue 15-Dec-15 12:51:44

My experience of similar is that a company was formed, all householders become shareholders of that company when they buy a house, and it run as a company.

Such a change would be discussed and voted on at the AGM, then the directors would carry it out. Same with raising the levy.

It does rely on people being committed enough to take the time to learn about how things work and support those who are doing the donkey work.

LoveArt Tue 15-Dec-15 18:38:55

Thank you everyone for your answers.

Apologies if I was confusing but they were elected in apparently before we lived here.

We have a property management company and I asked them for details of the association and they sent this

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/386525/TableAPublicOct2007.pdf

I also have been sent the pdf of agreement they signed some time ago but probably should not post it here due to outing myself but if anyone can help maybe I could send a pm?

TheSkiingGardener Wed 16-Dec-15 19:04:31

Sounds like us. We have to have an AGM and a third of our directors have to retire by rotation and stand for re-election.

You need your companies articles of association. Your property management company should be able to supply them.

You may need to stage a coup. They did here 8 years ago. It was quite exciting.

akkakk Wed 16-Dec-15 19:13:02

That link refers to a PLC which is a Public Limited Company - slightly surprised that any housing group should be a PLC rather than a normal Ltd company - it has far more onerous requirements (e.g. £50,000 in share capital!) etc.

If you know the name of the organisation, stick it in here:
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/
and you may be able to read the articles online

they tend to be reasonably logical, you are looking for:
- who can call a meeting
- timescale
- appointment of directors
- etc.

do PM if you want any help

Headmelt Wed 16-Dec-15 19:19:25

I'll be disappointed if the plan goes ahead because it has the potential of lots of parking threads on mn <over invested!> grin

LoveArt Wed 16-Dec-15 19:42:19

The property managment company sent me article of association and it was just the link above but the company name added on the front with some signatures?!

I emailed the property manager to confirm all other residents will not be permitted to attend the meeting and he said

"Tom and Mark have been democratically elected by members of BBB to be Directors and have the authority to make decisions on behalf of the Company in their role as Directors."

(Changed names). That was all he said...

akkakk Wed 16-Dec-15 20:04:05

Directors do have authority to make decisions on behalf of members, but equally members generally have the right to remove / reappoint the directors smile and a director has to be able to show that they are running an organisation for the benefit of the organisation / members, failure to do that could mean that the are in breach of their duties as directors...

so to proceed with a decision which the vast majority of members do not agree (assuming that is the case) could be a 'wrong' decision which could be overturned... A director shouldn't be making decisions at a personal level, but on behalf of the organisation / members - much like charity trustees / school governors etc.

prh47bridge Wed 16-Dec-15 20:49:49

That link refers to a PLC which is a Public Limited Company

No it doesn't. It is the model Articles of Association that can be used for either a plc or an ordinary limited company. For an ordinary limited company you just strike out "public" from "public limited company" and use "Ltd" rather than "plc".

akkakk Wed 16-Dec-15 20:59:39

only skimmed them - that is good then smile still worth popping the company details into the link above to see the actual documents, not just sample documents

LoveArt Fri 18-Dec-15 21:36:58

As an update I researched the parking company the want to use and found horror stories of these companies finding an excuse to start fining the residents (permit upside down) in own spaces. The director has history of his previous parking companies being struck off.

After all apparently they will operate for "free"- so of course they need to meet costs from somewhere.

I told them this information and was told I "should be careful what I say" (strongly feel he was trying to imply I was being slanderous as he copied in the management company) and was told as a suggestion I should "forget about it and relax".
The other director now claims there was an AGM and as we did not go we are not entitled to ask questions on the "proposal" and he was tired of it.

Gazelda Fri 18-Dec-15 21:41:23

ask for the minutes of the AGM

Boosiehs Fri 18-Dec-15 21:50:19

And the notice of AGM

You might find they haven't been providing notice correctly.

If you can be bothered I'd try and call an extraordinary General meeting and see if you can propose a motion to cancel the parking fees etc.

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