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ds16 might be in prison for Christmas

(14 Posts)
foxy6 Wed 02-Dec-15 22:30:49

hi was told to post this in legal, the original post was in teenagers thanks for taking a look.
ds is 16 he has been a handfull for a long time. he regularly uses cannabis and due to his behavior becoming out of control and him smashing things up at home we decided in the summer that he had to leave home. he went to live is a supported living hostel. while there his substance misuse got worse and involved m cat, legal high and Valium. we tried to support him as much as we could. it all came to a head one day when he called for money as he didnt have any food. we refused to give him money so his dad took him down some food. he wasnt happy about this and started shouting at hubby that we didnt help and he wanted to be left alone. it ended up in him threatening hubby with a knife. hubby was unaware of this as had got back in the car to leave, it was caught on cct and police phoned by staff at the hostel.
since then ds got kicked out of hostel and spent some time at a friends, he got very low stopped all other drugs than cannabis. he was very upset a lot and sorry for what he had done, he agreed he needed help and wanted to stop the cannabis but felt he couldnt where he was, so we agreed he could come back home. things with him improved at first, he seen a CPN from CAMHS, he started a training course, stayed in and didnt go out and seems to be making a effort. however he only seen the CPN once and told her he didnt want to see her again, he got kicked off the training course and is out all the time refusing to be grounded for kicking off the other day. we believe he is smoking cannabis again although he denies it.
well he was in court yesterday for the knife incident, the charge carries a minimum 4 mts in prison, unless it can be shown that it will not be in his best interests basically, so its adjourned for a full report on ds to be done and to return to court on the 22nd for sentencing. ds does not seem to appreciate the seriousness of the situation thinking he wont go to prison.
the report to be written is to try and show them reason not to send him, he doesnt seem to realize that and kicked off last night and disappeared. i let him off that as yesterday was very stressful and he had a lot to process, today however he is just the same.
as his parents they want our input into this report and i dont know what to do for the best, do i just be brutally honest and tell he wont cooperate with us,he wont follow house rules and has fought with his older brother recently picking up a knife. do i tell them he is 1 step away form being kicked out again due to his behavior and the impact its having on us and his siblings.i feel this honesty may get him spending Christmas in prison. so far all he has going on his side is an interview with another training provider tomorrow.

i really dont know what to do.will prison do him some god it will it just make things worse?

NorthernLurker Wed 02-Dec-15 22:47:16

What a tough position for you. All I can say is that in general terms I tend to think prison isn't in anyone's best interests. Fact is if he avoids prison this time, the next time he won't and so I don't think you need to worry too much that if you give him another chance, it will just go on like that with him endlessly getting new chances. He's damn near run out of options. I do think you need to disclose that this is difficult but you're prepared to try one more time. Then it's up to him. I wouldn't see a child of mine in prison if I could help it and I think this will be your last chance to influence events.
You and dh have clearly done the best you can. Whatever happens I wish you both peace of heart.

Themodernuriahheep Wed 02-Dec-15 23:56:19

I support NL 's but for perhaps different reasons, although I can see where she is ominous from. Like her, I don't think prison helps most people. I do think it would be useful to discover what the triggers were that caused him to fall off the tracks again when he had made a good start. Something did.

So I think you could say, with honesty, that he seemed to be improving but something triggered a reverse. If he is ever going to get his act together, he needs to understand what makes him flip. And although he has recently been pretty dreadful you want to see what can be done.

There is one caveat I would make to this. If you think he is a actual danger to you, your family or others, rather than just threatening, then I think he should be somewhere where he cannot cause serious harm. I am not saying what he has done is not wrong and serious, it is.

foxy6 Thu 03-Dec-15 00:18:15

Thank for taking the time to reply. I'm not sure prison is going to be good. I'd worry about him getting into worse stuff and learning worse behaviour. I agree we need to get to the bottom of why he is like this. We have 5 dcs and he is the only one like this. I believe he has adhd to start with and cause I couldn't get anyone to listen when he was younger he never got the support needed and has developed worse problems like oppositional defiance disorder, and he says others have mentioned he might be bi polar. The meeting that he agreed to with the CPN was to see if there were underlying problems as to why he smokes cannabis, is he self medicating? ( I believe he is, as he has said it clears his mind as things get so confusing for him and get overloaded) But as he told he he didn't want to see her againg there's not much she can do.
He has had anger management problems since small for which no one ever seemed to take seriously, so never got any help. Unless you see his lose it's hard to imagine from this sweet ( he was very sweet ) looking boy. He would filp and not have any control, I would have to hold him down to stop him fighting with his brothers for up to an hour. I can't do that now he's too big
All I have ever wanted is help with him, for him to understand himself, then maybe he can learn to control himself.
He is asking very influenced by who he is with and when he first came home was doing well as he didn't go anywhere, then he started a trading scheme, where he met up with someone he knows who is like him and things started getting worse from then. Both boys were kicked off the training for bad behaviour, bad language, aggressive behaviour and suspicion or substance missuse. If I could I'd pack him up and take him away from everyone he know but that's not an option.

gingeroots Thu 03-Dec-15 13:40:05

My heart goes out to you - no help I know sad.

You sound as though you're doing all you can ,and I take my hat off to you .

I think you've had good advice above .I wonder if I you should post on chat for more replies and support ? There's a long term poster ( who's name escapes me ,possibly from Northern Ireland ??? ) who has ,sadly for her ,had a lot of experience of what you're going through .

Keep going ,keep the door open for your boy .

I hope he gets the help he needs ( not prison ) and that you find the strength and support that you need as well .

flowersflowers flowers

BCBG Thu 03-Dec-15 13:49:59

Has he ever been convicted of an offence, OP? If he hasn't and he pleaded guilty to the knife offence then I am as certain as I can be that your local yOuth Offending Service will bend over backward to keep him out of Prison with the alternative which is an obligatory Referral Order. If you want to PM me I will be happy to explain further.

Cleansheetsandbedding Thu 03-Dec-15 13:51:51

I think you need to be brutally honest.

He needs help and he won't get that if you pretend he is ok. What if he stabs some one in the house and you have said that he is doing well. You will never forgive yourself. The rest of the families safely should not be put at risk for the sake of one individual. His temper and agression is out of control and very dangerous to everyone including himself.

Take him back to the GP and see if he has mental health issues.

I have some one in my family who was like this, she actually hit her father over the back of the head with a rock. How she didn't kill him I don't know. I feel bad for you it's awful flowers

foxy6 Thu 03-Dec-15 13:52:12

Yes he has a conviction for criminal damage when he broke a car wing mirror and he's been felt with by the youth offending team twice.

BCBG Thu 03-Dec-15 17:06:45

Ah. sad. I would be very reluctant to imprison him - it is, and should be a tool of last resort with youths. It may be that your YOT has other options it can recommend. I imagine that his anger is fuelled by the addiction and the fact that he can't easily access money to pay for it, and very probably that he owes others money - something that we see a lot. I also know that CAMHS support is patchy and under pressure. I think in answer to your original question that you have to be as frank as possible with YOS. However, if they do find him accommodation - and I suspect that is unlikely - he will probably spiral downwards unless he is getting intensive support in other areas.

jellyjiggles Thu 03-Dec-15 17:25:06

I think firstly remember that your evidence will be taken in conjunction with the other evidence. The resulting sentencing will not be done on your information alone. It's a lot of pressure on you. Your in an impossible situation.

I agree that prison very rarely helps anyone however he needs help to change and you as a family are very willing to do all that you realistically can to facilitate this. You are however limited in what you can do. You need help with him and Camhs is a good place to start but also consider requesting assistance from youth workers who specialise in drugs and offending. He needs professional help to pull himself out of the hole he's in. It has been done before so it's not impossible!

I think for him to change he does need your support but with 4 other children to consider and due to his age and behaviour he's not making it easy.

I think be honest in that you want to support him. You want to help him but you need professional help to do that. Putting him I prison isn't giving him access to the help he really needs. It's removing him from his support network and family and you fear it will add to his problems by exposing him to others who could influence him further at a very vulnerable time for him.

If he does anything else he will go to prison. This is his last chance now and thats only if it goes in his favour. He will be a very lucky young man if he gets this opportunity.

foxy6 Thu 03-Dec-15 17:43:10

The problems I have with getting help have been promises of support from the youth section of social services that never materialise. I was told 2 weeks ago we were priority and still have heard nothing. I've been to Dr several times over the years, from the age of 8 asking for help, when he was 8 we saw someone who recommended a book for his anger. When he was 12 he saw a councillor for a while how thought he didn't have any problems. And when we saw someone from CAMHS when he was 14 they sat with us both for 45 mins and said there was nothing wrong and she wouldn't refer him further, although he fidgeted all the time, was dectracted and she could see that as she let him leave early. Those are the only 3 times go referee things further out of the many I've been to see them. He also is very reluctant to engage in help offered he's seen substance missuse workers 3 seperate times and tells them he hasn't a problem and doesn't want to see them after a few visits. That's is our major hurdle. He doesn't think he has a problem and there fore won't accept help. Any problems he does have are because of someone else and not him. He has always seen things that way despite us trying to teach him otherwise. When he was younger seeing these other people he showed them a differed boy. He has always been very good at reading and manalipating others, since he was small

foxy6 Thu 03-Dec-15 17:51:42

On a good Note the interview with a new training provider today went well and he starts Monday. That will go in his favour.

SugarDiabetes Sat 26-Dec-15 13:09:08

How did it go foxy?

nearlyhadenough Sat 02-Jan-16 16:28:34

OP - I hope there was a successful resolution to your situation and that you all managed a peaceful and happy Christmas and New Year.

My daughter was 14 when she was arrested for being in possession of a knife in a public place and being part of an assault on another girl. She had 2 previous convictions for assault, one on a fellow student at school and the other on her dad.

The incident was filmed on a mobile phone. Luckily there was no DVD player in the court room, or else we are fairly sure that she and her friend would have been sent to prison (youth offending equivalent).

She got a 10 month referral order. She used this time to start to turn her life around.

She had been taking part in every risky behaviour that you can imagine and I even tried to have her hospitalised due to her mental health. I did want/need to have her taken into care for the sanity of all the family - with hindsight I am now so glad that Social Services refused.

6 years on she is completely unrecognisable - both physically and in her behaviour and attitudes. She is simply AMAZING! She is living independently with her BF of 5 years, has a reasonable (for where we live) job and is the most kind,thoughtful and caring person.

There is hope for your son.

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