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Grandparents "rights"?

(35 Posts)
Chamonix1 Mon 26-Oct-15 18:54:09

Do they have any legally? Very long and boring story but dp has finally had a huge bust up with his narcissistic mother and I'm very concerned we may have letters through the door from solicitors demanding "access" to dd (3).
They've mentioned before "grandparents have legal rights you know" and used the term "access" a fair bit so just a little worried it was already on their mind.
Help!

MooseBeTimeForSummer Mon 26-Oct-15 18:58:50

Grandparents do have the ability to make an application to the Court but they first have to apply for "leave" (permission) to make that application. It isn't always guaranteed.

What is their relationship with DD like? Have they been having regular contact?

Chamonix1 Mon 26-Oct-15 19:09:49

For the first year or dd's life they saw her, with us. They rarely
Had her alone. Then they moved away for a year and we didn't see them, then they've seen her with us present and a handful of times alone.
Sadly dd does love nana and grandad, they do fun things with her and treat her a lot.
However they have had a very damaging effect on their own son who no longer wants to know them... Thus making me concerned for how dd will get treated when she no longer conforms to their rules etc.
Oh god I feel sick sad
I never ever wanted them to take dd, dp was soooo desperate to keep them happy and so desperate for a "normal" relationship with them he just did whatever would shut them up.

stoppingbywoods Mon 26-Oct-15 19:18:09

As I understand it, grandparents have no rights but the child has a right not to have their relationship with their grandparents severed in the event of a divorce.

Divorce is supposed to be the trigger for this.

They have to be able to demonstrate that a meaningful relationship already exists. Eg., if they see your child once a week they may be able to insist on this continuing if you have divorced.

Grandparents tend not to understand how this works.

stoppingbywoods Mon 26-Oct-15 19:20:01

It's also worth mentioning that, although it's not an easy option, refusing to obey a court order will not result in a prison sentence in these circumstances.

I spoke to a lady on gransnet who was part of the team that decides applications like this. She said a toxic family set-up was usually present and they did not usually grant access.

Chamonix1 Mon 26-Oct-15 19:24:52

Thanks, god it's all so scary, I'm going to be waiting for a solicitors letter for months.
We have tried and tried to have a normal relationship with them (because dp just wanted normal parents who loved him) and now it's probably going to go against us because they've seen dd.
What happens if we emigrate?
Clutching at straws!

LittleFeileFooFoo Mon 26-Oct-15 19:30:10

In my experience, people love to say they will file a lawsuit, but rarely do they ever do that. Think about this, they are pulling out the biggest stick they can think of to bully you into submission. If she really is narcissisticc, she isn't going to want to have her dirty laundry aired in court. Have dh Tell her that once the Judge heats about her toxic ways, she'll get nothing.

LittleFeileFooFoo Mon 26-Oct-15 19:31:41

The idea is to keep connections for the child. If you emigrate I can't see them being able to stop you! You dd hasn't been living with them, just visiting.

Chamonix1 Mon 26-Oct-15 19:36:05

The problem is she just denies everything bad she's ever done/said and it's just her and her husbands word against mine and dh's. I can't work out if she has some crazy memory loss, selective
Memory or is out right crazy.
For example, completely denies she and her husband ever shouted at us demanding we have an abortion- which we both clearly remember (for obvious reasons, very distressing!)
push comes to shove me move then, id rather that.

LittleFeileFooFoo Mon 26-Oct-15 19:38:40

Believe me, the folks at the court have seen this type of person before. But you won't ever have to find out because it likely won't get that far. This is part of the personality disorder, and she is trying to get her way now that her son is not trying to make her happy anymore.

SurlyCue Mon 26-Oct-15 19:38:41

I have been through this. The grandparents were granted contact with my son at 16 months old having had none at all for the previous 8 months. Before that contact was 4 hours every other weekend (not official- arranged through my EXp) i stopped contact due to threats of violence made against my family. Grandparents made no attempt to contact for 8 months then went straight to court and were granted it because they had "previously enjoyed a relationship" with my son and the judge didnt deem them a risk to my child.

LittleFeileFooFoo Mon 26-Oct-15 19:42:23

Surly, was there a divorce proceeding involved in your situation?

SurlyCue Mon 26-Oct-15 19:44:55

No, we were never married. Exp and I split before DS was born, the grandparents contact was only happening because exp lived with them so they saw DS when EXp had him.

Chamonix1 Mon 26-Oct-15 19:49:18

Really? At 16 months????
I've had a few threats but none I can prove, just "watch on chamonix1, watch out!!" Down the phone :/
So even if their son doesn't want a relationship with them because they're too toxic they could end up with rights...
Australia it is then.

LittleFeileFooFoo Mon 26-Oct-15 19:53:59

So your ds lived with them. Op, did you dd ever live with gps?

SurlyCue Mon 26-Oct-15 19:56:24

Yes. I was able to insist that the first 4 times were with me present because DS didnt have the foggiest who they were! He hadnt seen them since he was 8 months old. But after the first 4 times i had to hand him over to them. It was very hard. The threats were witnessed and the police involved. Non-molestation order made. Didnt make a blind bit of difference in court. The judge asked if the threats had been made against DS and when i said no he said "then they're irrelevant". The grandfather has convictions for assault including one against a police officer. This was all brought to the judges attention. He kept saying "irrelevant" and said that either i agreed or he made the order without allowing me to be present for the first 4 sessions. Tbh i think he was just ticking boxes. He wasnt interested in whether it was right for my son.

SurlyCue Mon 26-Oct-15 19:58:30

No my DS didnt live with them. As i said he spent 4 hours every other weekend at their house because his father lived there and thats where he took DS for his contact.

Chamonix1 Mon 26-Oct-15 20:08:18

No- never lived with them. they wouldn't even allow us in their house for 4 weeks in between moving houses because we are "dirty" and they have to tidy up dd's mess. (Toys)

stoppingbywoods Mon 26-Oct-15 20:28:52

This issue was actually the deciding factor for us not allowing DD to ever see my PILs after she was born. I wouldn't panic yet OP. It doesn't sound like they had regular contact.

Chamonix1 Mon 26-Oct-15 20:33:02

Not regular as in they take her every Tuesday or whatever but regular in we went to see them regularly to avoid hysterical mil and angry fil. Tried for 3 years to keep them happy so dp could have normal parents and wish I hadn't bother

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Mon 26-Oct-15 20:35:58

Divorcing parents don't get legal aid these days OP so I find it hard to believe DH's parents would... do they have money?

Chamonix1 Mon 26-Oct-15 20:46:29

Loads of money. That's why I'm so worried.

london32 Tue 27-Oct-15 08:11:12

Hi does anyone know the process after the rugby to apply has been granted?

Long story but my mum lived with us for 5yr and helped with kids. She's always had depressions (40yr) but actually
I think it's female Aspergers.

Anyway had to ask her not to care for kids any more as she was extremely depressed and causing all
Kind of emotional abuse issues.

Moved out and got right for court apposition. Now at stage 2 where need to discuss contact but 2 of my kids are terrified of her and other doesn't want to see her.

Can't afford psychiatric assessment and she'd perform well for it anyway.

Any ideas

Collaborate Tue 27-Oct-15 08:33:06

I'm not sure what stage you're at as your post is unclear. Perhaps it would be best setting out what orders have been made, and applications issued, and starting your own thread about it. Look for "start new thread in this topic" near the top of this page.

Chamonix1 Tue 27-Oct-15 08:42:57

Haven't slept all night, bee reading about all sorts and getting nowhere. Dp has contacted a solicitor today for advice. I'm so angry with myself for allowing them in mine and dd's life at all, but I didn't know them all that well when I got pregnant and was just hoping they'd chill out once dd arrived .
Idiot.

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