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Rights of the Child

(16 Posts)
anyoldnameforathread Sat 01-Aug-15 20:37:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Katiebeau Sat 01-Aug-15 21:50:24

Bumping for you. I'm sorry I can't help.

Aoifebell Sat 01-Aug-15 21:57:18

Bumping too, that sounds horrendous. Hope the little girl is ok sad

prh47bridge Sat 01-Aug-15 23:32:53

Dad's needs are not paramount, nor are mum's. The primary concern of the courts is the child's best interests. In most cases the court will consider that to include contact with the father but not invariably. Depending on the evidence the court may give unsupervised contact, indirect contact or no contact.

If the father was ever married to the mother the only way he can lose his PR is if his daughter is adopted. If they were not married it may be possible to get his PR removed but the courts are generally reluctant to do so. The decision would be based on the child's best interests.

prh47bridge Sat 01-Aug-15 23:32:59

Dad's needs are not paramount, nor are mum's. The primary concern of the courts is the child's best interests. In most cases the court will consider that to include contact with the father but not invariably. Depending on the evidence the court may give unsupervised contact, indirect contact or no contact.

If the father was ever married to the mother the only way he can lose his PR is if his daughter is adopted. If they were not married it may be possible to get his PR removed but the courts are generally reluctant to do so. The decision would be based on the child's best interests.

anyoldnameforathread Sun 02-Aug-15 00:32:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prh47bridge Sun 02-Aug-15 05:34:46

The problem the family courts face is that it has become increasingly common for parents to make false accusations of abuse in an attempt to prevent contact. They therefore treat such allegations with caution unless there is solid evidence to back them up. They also take the view that evidence of the father being violent to the mother, for example, does not necessarily mean the father will be violent towards the child. The court can only go off the evidence in front of them. If the evidence that the father is a danger to his child is strong enough contact can be stopped. It does happen.

Bellemere Sun 02-Aug-15 09:19:46

Social services have seen that the father has caused this injury which was so serious to warrant hospitalisation but are still recommending contact goes ahead?

Ultimately, if the judge, CAFCASS and social services are all saying that contact should continue to go ahead then your friend can't really do much about that (except appealing if she has grounds to do so).

Toffeelatteplease Sun 02-Aug-15 09:30:41

You need social services to take the lead not your friend

anyoldnameforathread Sun 02-Aug-15 09:33:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

anyoldnameforathread Sun 02-Aug-15 09:37:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bellemere Sun 02-Aug-15 10:28:02

I hold a very cynical view of the court system from my own personal experience too and family courts should be renamed fathers courts imho.

This isn't going to be helping your friend. I'd imagine it will heighten her anxiety and children pick up on these anxieties.
My experience of the family courts is the opposite - the majority of magistrates and judges being very conscious of safeguarding and being more cautious than is perhaps necessary. I think this focus on safeguarding (following Baby P type cases) is just as "fashionable" as the recognition that children generally fare better when both parents are involved in their care. Of course steps need to be taken when children are at risk but severing a relationship with a parent is a dramatic solution with traumatic consequences.

anyoldnameforathread Mon 03-Aug-15 19:51:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bellemere Mon 03-Aug-15 21:51:59

No - they are giving her the correct legal advice. If she wants to stop contact and has genuine reason for it then she must return the matter to court immediately. Make an emergency application and sit in the waiting room until the judge will hear the matter. Otherwise she will be breaching the order.

anyoldnameforathread Mon 03-Aug-15 23:28:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bellemere Tue 04-Aug-15 08:31:44

I'm really sorry that you feel that way. I wasn't trying to be smug or to upset you at all. I wasn't saying that I felt contact should continue - frankly if someone had assaulted my daughter in that way I would have the police involved and press criminal charges and I would be straight down to the family court with an emergency application for contact to be suspended while a further welfare investigation was completed.

I was attempting to cut through the emotion of your post, of which there was understandably a lot, and just respond to the legal points. Legally, your friend has no right to stop contact without a court order so she needs to return to court to ensure her daughters safety.

I would imagine that what you've been told about supervised contact (to ensure her daughters safety) while father attends a positive parenting/anger management type course and then a gradual return to unsupervised contact is correct. I would find this terrifying too.

If this is the first time the mother has refused contact and she has got photos and medical records that confirm the injuries then the court are not going to do anything like imprison her. That's a serious step and they only do that in serious breaches.

I do not think the family court is fair or perfect in the slightest though, as I said, my experience is the opposite with them being overly keen to "protect" a child from (false) allegations of abuse so it is harder for me to imagine that a different judge would be so blasé about what has happened with your friends daughter.

I wish your friend the best of luck and the right outcome for her daughter.

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