Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.
breach of undertaking(13 Posts)
Both myself and my stbxh have an undertaking in place: not to threaten each other, the children or damage joint or sole property or get anyone else to do so in brief)
On Saturday we had exchanged emails whereby I advised I was not happy for the children to be collected at 7.30 on a Sunday morning and that the normal time had been 10 for many months, it was changed at the beginning of the month as a one off and I've let him do it twice more, however the weekend passed I put my foot down and emailed to let him know this, I have also voiced this. He emailed saying if he was prevented from access to his home (we jointly own it but he's not living there) he would call the police, let both solicitors know and the school and social services.
Sunday morning, my keys are in the lock as that is where I leave them so I know where they are as I'm not expecting him to come by and simply walk into the house so he thudded on the door, this shook the whole house and my neighbours said they also felt it. He thudded so hard the letterbox flap of a double glazed door fell off and is now broken.
Does this warrant me going back to court because he has breached the undertaking?
any advice please?
What would you gain? Is it worth the trouble and subsequent animosity for something fairly minor?
that's exactly what I'm trying to consider.
I have filed with court for the financials, and I am going to file the C100 this week which hopefully will be sufficient.
Every time XH behaved like a wanker I simply documented it in case it would be useful in future. There was nothing to be gained at the time other than animosity.
I am wondering if another email might help, however it just seems to fall on deaf ears, whenever I try to arrange anymore contact than the Sunday (which is why this has all happened I said he could look after them the last 2 weekends Saturday and Sunday and it's all fallen apart!) he states this .............
"As for childcare arrangements, my only suggestion is this.
Move out of my house and leave me and the children alone to make the most of our lives. Let me live unmolested with my children. Stop cutting me out."
I do not understand why he says stop cutting me out, I send and forward all correspondence from the schools both of them go to, I've copied him the letter regarding medical appointments, they see him every Sunday unless he plays golf and then I arrange for them to see him on the Saturday instead unless I have made plans already. As said above I've tried to organise more contact, I don't know what else I can do. He says things like the below:
"you misunderstand, as usual. It is astounding that you are incapable of being pleasant and looking after our children.
You did everything within your power to delay the children yet again this morning. I really don't understand it, yet you then try to blame everyone else rather than recognise your inability to do what is necessary.
You brazenly told me that you had been trying since 7am to get them washed and dressed. How incapable are you if it takes you that long to get even simple tasks done?
You cause chaos and panic wherever you go. Particularly with DS.
He needs to be understood and appreciated... Two things it is apparent that you are incapable of, I'm afraid, hence our situation.
Stop bullying me. Stop bullying the children.
And do the decent thing."
I can't believe he said the bit about my ds needing to be understood and appreciated when he himself shouts and swears at him!
Sorry to be an ambiguous in answering your question but the best answer is `it depends'.
While he has undoubtedly broken the undertaking consider what you would ask the court to do about it if you asked for another hearing. It is a question you're liable to be asked by the court.
If you are attempting to demonstrate that he is threatening, controlling, abusive, etc. it may be worth documenting this by way of emailing him, etc. and saying `I was shocked and disappointed by the events of Sunday morning. When you thumped on the door you damaged the flap. We both gave an undertaking not to threaten each other, the children or damage joint or sole property or get anyone else to do so and despite promising this you have done so'.
Your sole goal should be the best interests of the children. Be sure that anything you do and say are (and are seen to!) child-focused. Unless you have a legal basis for stopping the children seeing their father you should not do so or threaten to do so. If you do that is a reason to take the matter to court.
With regard to your ex threatening the police...ignore him. The police have no power concerning your DC unless he feels they are at risk. Most likely if he chooses to call them (and the school and Social Services) he will be told to contact his solicitor or make an application to the court. If I were advising him on this I would be telling him it would not be a good idea on the basis of what you've said.
Regarding your other comments - bear in mind that a C100 has no bearing on financial aspects (and in fact as covered by different acts...the former the 1989 Children Act and the latter the 1973 Matrimonial Causes Act). Financial matters are affected by the children - money follows the children however. For these reasons child matters have to be ideally settled before finances so the children can be provided for.
Please consider getting some kind of assistance if you are going to court. I see an awful lot of litigants in person as a McKenzie Friend and I know it can be daunting. Unaccompanied LiPs have a right to be treated fairly, honestly and assisted in terms of procedure by solicitors and barristers but it doesn't always work out like that (and I often help people through that particular minefield).
Feel free to get in touch if you want a few pointers. With regard to ongoing support, consider contacting Families Need Fathers (despite the name it's an organisation that supports everyone involving parental separation).
thank you lostdad you make a lot of sense. I think he's lost and trying to get control back because I've taken his control over me away. It's a typical abuser attitude I've been told.
I don't wish to get him fined or arrested so I don't think going back to court over breaching the undertaking will help anyone. I know that I'm trying my best to be flexible with contact, it is he that is impeding this and I can't do anything about that until he comes around and faces up to what's going on.
I have already filed in court regarding the financial matters but hoped that the children could be agreed amicably, however he makes nothing amicable and continually blames me for everything despite his abusing me and the children. I am going to file the C100 this week, as it doesn't look like things will be agreed between the two of us and he refused mediation so this seems my only option for stability and security of the children.
I have a solicitor (that I can't get hold of) that has helped me since going to court in June for a non-mol/occ order and is helping me through the divorce (which he instigated in July), I also have a support worker (although I can't seem to get hold of her today either) from the local Domestic Violence agency.
It seems that we need to get that child arrangements in place asap so that we all know where we are and can get used to it. I only hope that it doesn't end up with him having full residency or 50/50 as both these options would be a nightmare for the children due to his angry outbursts when the children don't do as they are told, he ends up swearing and shouting at my ds. DD says he doesn't do it to her anymore. However, this would probably change if they lived with him and then by then if the children changed their mind it would be too late re house etc.
Thanks for the good luck.
Extremely unlikely it will be 50/50 or residency (or `who the child lives with' in the new CAOs).
Demands for 50/50 are rare: Anyone asking it will need to demonstrate it is in the best interests of the child and seldom offers any argument other than `It will teach the children that we are equally important' which IMHO is a pretty weak argument.
Regarding `residency': The status quo will be maintained under the `no order' principle unless he has compelling arguments to do seek change. Chances are that once again it's a symbolic thing for him.
If I were advising him I'd be telling him not to refer to either even if he did want them.
hi lostdad, C100 and C1A will be filed today so we join the queue waiting for the first hearing. My solicitors have asked that they send back the papers so that she can serve it on stbxh's solicitors, this way we know when he knows and can be prepared for a change in behaviour for the bad!
She suspects this won't be for another 3 months so hopefully things will settle down, of course I'm not hopeful as he's doing his best to be difficult. Yesterday my dd called him to ask him to take her to school as she was not feeling well (I'd taken her the day before), he wanted to speak to me before saying anything but used this as an opportunity to remind me that I was the primary carer and why did I ask her to call him to disrupt his routine! I simply said ok, you can't take her I'll take her bye whilst he carried on ranting. He called back and spoke to ds and told him he was coming to pick up him and make sure he got to school on time.
Apparently so I found out last night, he said I was disgraceful for taking dd when he was coming to collect her and ds! he didn't even say this to me! not looking forward to Sunday, I expect there will be more banging on the door at 7.30!
The sooner you can agree fixed arrangements for the children which never change so neither side can mess the other around the better.
Who keeps their keys in the lock by the way? That is very surprising. It's his house as much as yours so presumably as as much right to live there for now as you do.
I agree greengrow.
He does have the right to live there yes, however as he is an abuser of his children and myself whilst living there and now myself still and I have called the police a couple of times he has probably been advised by them to stay away for the time being. We are in the process of divorce so why would he want to?
I went to court for non-mol with an occupation paragraph in the order because he was abusing us in June. 2 weeks later it was replaced by an undertaking.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now »
Already registered? Log in with:
Please login first.