Appealing a car practical driving test decision

[spg]

Hello,

Really need some advice please

I took my practical test yesterday. And the examiner failed me for stopping at a pedestrian crossing. It was a Light controlled crossing and it was flashing amber and there were lots of people about to cross and there was this woman with a pram who looked as if she has stepped out.. "The traffic from the oppposite side remained stationery too*..
Am sure they were thinking the same thing that I was thinking, that this woman was crossiing and it was still flashing amber.. t
I had jusst exited a mini roundabout and the traffic was crawling anyway..
so, it wasn't as if I slammed the brakes for the flashing amber or anything like that at all..

And indeed, the woman crossed and so were others.

The examiner quoted highway code and said flashing amber means that I should have gone. have just checked the same and it says "if the amber lights are flashing and there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with caution"

And I was doing exactly that. On a practical note, for such a situation isn't it safer to interpret the "proceed with caution" part of it rather than rushing to pass ? I feel that I will be inclined to do the same thing of stopping if I were in a similar situation.

I had only 3 faults totally; the other 2 were minors.

This is my 5th attempt and I can't tell you how shattered I am to have failed it on the 5th attempt on something like this. I spent most of yesterday crying. So much hinges on this. We are spending 36 pounds on taxi everyday to ferry my daughter to and from nursery. There is no public transport; we were hoping to move to that area etc, Long story. I work part time and it doesn't even break even, at this rate of expenditure.

I really feel that I ought to appeal this decision if at all here is some procedure to do it.

What will be my legal stand on this ?

Yes, I appreciate that strict standards should be maintained for passing a test, but equally so, shouldn't the candidate also be treated fairly and reasonably?

Does anyone know of anybody who has done an appeal and what the process is and what was the outcome?

To give some context , the same examiner has examined me 3 of the 5 times(1,4,5). He recognised me and even my car this time. THe first time, he asked me what I do for a living and what my "Dr" title stands for and when I said I have a doctorate and that I do research, he said "Maybe you have studied too much , spent too much time studying, but your driving isn't simply flowing"

At that time (6 months back), I took it in my stride and though I though it was none of his business to remark about my occupation having an impact on my driving, I decided to ignore it.

BUt, this time, I am furious at the way he has failed me.
And more importantly, I am scared that the next time around, I will get him again and he might do something similar. I don't want to take it in another centre as I have practised a lot in that area and the test routes there.

Please, please, share your thoughts

[InfinitySeven]

I have never known anyone to get anything other than the standard: decision of the test conductor is final, etc response when appealing.

If you think he is failing you deliberately, you could take your test at a different test centre?

That said, if you think you'd do the same again, you might get some value out of repeating driving lessons around zebra crossings. If she wasn't crossing yet, other cars will have expected you to keep moving. The fact that in this case it was fine is small in comparison to the principal - you need to obey the rules of the road so that others know what you'll be doing, to a degree.

It's difficult without being there and I was really nervous about driving where there were people crossing, let alone prams, when I started, but you have to be attentive without being too nervous to go.

[InfinitySeven]

Ahem, just reread and saw the bit about knowing the routes.

It's a balance. If you think he's failing you for no reason, it's worth learning the other routes. If you don't, stay where you are.

I do sympathise. It sucks, and I can't imagine how crushing it would be to fail five times. I don't think I'd bother with an appeal, though, because it would compound the disappointment if you lost again.

[sanfairyanne]

do you mean it was a traffic light flashing orange, about to turn green?

[TunipTheUnconquerable]

I think his comment about your doctorate was well out of order. Could you request to not have him again, based on that?

TBH though, I don't think you'll get anywhere with appealing. I would think the best you could hope for would be a refund of your test fee; I doubt very much they'd reverse his decision even if he'd acted in a much more obviously, provably out-of-order way.

[TychosNose]

Sorry I have no experience of appeals, but I just wanted to offer my sympathies. The examiner sounds like an a-hole and that does not sound like a reason to fail someone. Good luck.

[sanfairyanne]

you definitely shouldnt have stopped if i am imagining the situation correctly
the pedestrians had to wait because it was probably flashing green man
you are supposed to wait til they finish crossing, not wait for them to start crossing

[lougle]

Tbh, if you were 'crawling along' then the time it took you to get from the mini-roundabout to the crossing was enough time to establish if she was on the crossing. If you had to think about whether she had stepped out or not, she wasn't on it.

I know it's easy for someone who has been driving years to say that, but the trouble is that drivers around you will partly base their decisions around what they expect you to do. If I see a hazard up ahead, my thoughts might be 'that car will need to slow down to go around that hazard.... I'll start slowing down...'. It won't be a conscious thought process, often, because driving becomes instinctive, but the right process goes on in the background.

It sounds like he was right to fail you (sorry) and your challenge will be on purely subjective grounds. As his job is to judge whether your driving was correct, I can't see how you could prove that he was wrong.

[InfinitySeven]

Everyone else has said what I tried to say much more succinctly.

I am sorry though, OP.

[zinher]

Please complain about him and also appeal. If nothing else it will at least give you some sense of justice. I did similar in a lesson when a

[Chopstheduck]

Oh that does sound harsh! I'm afraid I agree though, you were in the wrong, and since you will have made the traffic behind you stop, it was a major. :(

I would try another test center to be honest. When I did my test, it was my home town, but we went out, turned left instead of right and it was totally unfamiliar territory. It was absolutely fine, and tbh I think unfamiliar roads can make you concentrate more, so it is def worth a shot.

[InfinitySeven]

I was contemplating suggesting the same as chopstheduck. Unfamiliar roads might be easier - this could be that you're too familiar with that road?

It sounds like you're there, other than this, so I'd practice driving around zebra crossings for a day or so and then retake. You'll be fine :)

[SweetsForMySweet]

It depends. If it was at a pedestrian traffic lights you should have kept going (unless you would have had to slam on brakes to stop so they could cross at green man signal). If it was at a pelican crossing, a pedestrian has to put a foot on the crossing to indicate that they want to cross and then you stop. From what you said, no pedestrian had made their indication (foot on crossing) clear so you were not meant to stop. You could chance appealing and if you apply for resit, specify that you do not want that inspector.

[LittleBearPad]

You say its a light controlled crossing - so traffic light controlled? Sorry but you should have driven on. You wait at flashing Amber lights for people to finish crossing the road not to start crossing.

If you're worried about the examiner you should try another test centre but I doubt you'll be able to change the decision here as it sounds like you were wrong.

[Clash1001]

As far as I know, an appeal will mean your test money will be refunded, but you can't 'overturn' a fail.

[Clash1001]

A successful appeal, I mean...

You have my sympathy. I don't think I'll ever pass my test.

[PatriciaHolm]

You can appeal a test -
www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-standards-agency/about/complaints-procedure

However, it says they cannot change your test result, so I'm not sure in practical terms what would be achieved by doing so. I think, practically and emotionally, you need to put this behind you and try again - you are clearly so nearly there!

[Groovee]

Why would you be appealing? What would be your aim?

I would seriously consider changing test centres.

[Brices]

What day of the week are you taking your tests?
I passed on fourth attempt. The third fail the examiner asked to see my theory pass I said I had full motorcycle test so was not required to do another theory. He told me next time you take your test, they're changing the rules, you'll need to do a separate theory test.
Next time??! I hadn't even got in the car and surprise I failed for parking more than 12 inches away from kerb. Which I disputed.
It's all a con and a mockery of a test situation. I'm convinced they can only pass do many in a week. I changed from Saturday to Monday and passed.
The whole point of the driving test should be are you safe and competent. You put safety first with the pedestrian crossing scenario and you'd have thought proceed cautiously would be interpreted in your actions. Pedestrians are not rational and it's all to easy to kill them. But I think he needed a reason to fail you.
This driving test thing is a money making exercise and a farce. Too many examples, your not the only one. Honestly try a Monday.

[spg]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.
Has helped me to view things more objectively.

I do fully take on board the point about flashing-amber means GO and that the drivers behind aren't expecting you to stop (thats why I added that we were all crawling and it wasn't that I slammed the brakes while driving at 30mph). But, when there is an ambiguity about if the pedestrian has stepped or not; it had changed to flashing amber just as I got closer to the signal. And the other side traffic weren't moving either, with good reason I think.

Anyway,
I have booked a test again at the earliest available date (mid November), but hoping to look for a cancellation. But, now, increasingly, considering changing the test centre as well.

Brices,
I have always taken it on a Wed/Thu; So, something to consider for me, to try Monday. Thanks.

PatriciaHolm,
Thanks for the input on the outcome of the appeals.
Well, if the result wouldn't change, I wouldn't bother with the procedure.

Hopefully, 6th time lucky :-)