Landlord lying to mortgage holder and letting agent

[WhistlingPot]

A few years ago we discovered (through debt collectors arriving at our door) that not only had our landlords not been paying their mortgage for the past 6 months, they hadn't had permission from their mortgage holder to let out their house.

Thanks to Shelter, we learnt that the mortgage company had legal rights to evict us with two days notice, should they wish, regardless of the notice period we had signed up to.

Being 5 months pregnant at the time with our second child, and in the understanding it would be a long term let (we had been there 4.5 years) this was an exceptionally stressful time. We were served formal notice by the ll as they were obliged to put house on the market. We found somewhere else asap, less than ideal (by borrowing and using up valuable savings) and in fear the mortgage company could still evict sooner.

We were then evicted from the new place after 6 months due to ll selling up (even though had promised long term after initial 6 month let) and rented another place. We have just gone into social housing due to being evicted again as our home has just been sold (after being promised long term).

We have never defaulted on any rent and always looked after our homes, paying for thorough end of tenancy cleaners etc.

AIBU to feel agrieved that

A) Our original ll failed to sell house but gained permission to re-let, and the new tenants are still there?

B) The letting agent allowed the property to be let (and managed it) without permission from the lender, therefore compromising our position?

Do we have any legal rights?

[WhistlingPot]

Bump ?

I have tried to let this go and move on, but it always seems to be there, every time I drive past our old house. I guess I am feeling for ds1 right now, and wondering what he or we did to deserve such disruption in his early years. It's hard on him.

[MellowAutumn]

WhistlingPot - let it go - lots of babies/children have to move when small - that's life and you now have a great house I hope?

[SantasLittleMonkeyButler]

You are better off now. You have a social housing tenancy which, as tenancies go, is about as secure as you can get. You will not be evicted again unless you fail to pay your rent or break your tenancy agreement in a significant way.

I understand why you may feel bitter about the LL of the first house but you have to let it go. I doubt there is any action you could take in any case. It sounds as though each private let you were in gave you the required notice period. My DSs moved home four times during primary school too. It is just the world of private lets unfortunately.

[WhistlingPot]

We have a roof over our heads for which I am truly grateful, that much is for sure. It's difficult for ds, we're in a first floor flat with a knee high garden that's covered in dog dirt and broken glass. It's going to be a long time before he settles and sees it as positive that we don't have to move again unless we want too.

I'm not sure I'm after anything exactly, but it sure would help to know the ll have not just done this too is and got off Scot free. And the la.

I think there is something very wrong in
in the system for this to have been allowed to happen. I feel a need to know what lessons have been learnt, and how things could be improved for others.

[WhistlingPot]

Sorry for random typos there. On phone

[SantasLittleMonkeyButler]

Is your garden communal? If so, pester the HA/Council until they sort it out for you. If it is all yours then I make getting it nice a priority.

How old is your DS? We moved from a house to a first-floor flat with two DSs (we are back in a house now), but found that if you as parents concentrates on the positives of a home then the DCs do too.

[weatherall]

I don't think it's uncommon for LL's to tent without mortgage permission. Some won't give it because there's not enough equity. Even if they do agree they will make the ll switch to a btl mortgae which is a lot more expensive. So then they'd have to charge a higher rent.

It's just one of those issues of collateral damages of the housing crash/ recession.

Try not to dwell, it's in the past and thinking about it isn't go

[weatherall]

Sorry
Isn't going to help.

[WhistlingPot]

I get that we have to be positive for our boys. And we are. I am really excited about making it nice here, for the first time ever we don't feel reluctant to make nice improvements which aren't just money down the drain. I'm just a bit aware it's going to take more than that until the dc see it with their own eyes.

I'm not sure about this collateral damage thing. If I'd hired a car from a garage and the owner had it on hb without permission to rehire, I wonder what would happen then? Is that a crime? I don't see the difference tbh.

[WhistlingPot]

Hp rather

[MellowAutumn]

I think unless you are going to campaign in a big way for some sort of legal changes, any further speculation will not give you any satisfaction or as the Americans say 'closure' . Chalk it up to experience and move on - I wonder is this a displacement emotion from something else you need to confront ?

[WhistlingPot]

[baffled] at displaced emotion.

I think a campaign to change law is what's needed.

[unrealhousewife]

I think this is a failure of the justice system to ensure tha laws around eviction and fairbhousing contracts aren't more effective.

Write to your mp and try and get them to write to the MOJ. When enough cases are brought before them they might actually do something. Write the letter with your dcs,nthen let it go. Big you get a reply then great. But do your bit and move on.

Then get hold of a push lawn owe, shears hose and spade and sort the garden.

You're in social housing and this has probably freed you up financially, use the money to treat yourselves if you can.

[MellowAutumn]

Then great - 1st you have to decide what you want to put in place as its a bloody difficult balancing act to do- between check and balances and cost to tenants;)

Displaced emotion - worrying about irrelevant shit rather than immediate real problems :)

[WhistlingPot]

I guess it seems irrelevant if you haven't been affected first hand.

I will be writing to my mp. It's the whole turning a blind eye to seemingly irrelevant shirt that gets us nowhere and leaves the vulnerable at more risk. The vulnerable usually being the ones with least resources to fight injustice.

[WhistlingPot]

Curse auto correct. I need to teach this thing how to swear.

[WhistlingPot]

It stinks wigan.
Oddly enough it's now that I am finally feeling secure that I feel I have the resources now to speak out. Hopefully others will do the same. [Smile]

[unrealhousewife]

A campaign might have a negative impact on your family. It did with me anyway. Far better to write a few letters, which kind of is campaigning but then let it go and focus on the garden.

[WhistlingPot]

Yes I hear you and agree unrealhousewife.

I think I'll copy in my local head of housing and shelter, maybe they could take a campaign forwards if they get enough support.

[unrealhousewife]

Copying people in always helps

[WhistlingPot]

Thanks unreal.

Anyone with similar experiences or ideas for who to copy in, please shout.

[specialsubject]

unfortunately you rented from a fraudster and there is nothing to be done about that. In this case you CAN be evicted at short notice through no fault of your own.

Similarly if you buy a stolen car, it can be taken back and you lose all the money. Not fair either. You can check against this, and any reputable agent (which I appreciate is not all of them!) will check that a landlord does have permission to let.

you could report the rogue agent IF they are a member of one of the trade associations. Or you could just file it all in the 'shit happens' department and sort the garden.

BTW if you have a long tenancy, selling the house is not a reason to evict - the new owners just become your new landlords and cannot change the tenancy until it expires.

[WhistlingPot]

I appreciate what you are saying specialsubject.

However, there is a key difference, using the car analogy. The returning of a stolen car etc means those who have committed the crime are held to account if found, and if not, there is some sense of justice in returning the car to its rightful owner. There is currently no justice in situations as mine.

We have to suck it up and the ll is able to retain their'asset' as long as they can make financial sense of it. Unless of course you consider our being housed by the state as justice, of course.

The la of course will probably just shrug it off and put it down to experience.

[MellowAutumn]

There have been many attempts to make renting safe and easier and hopefully there will be more BUT many things that would be 'foolproof' actually mean tenants end up paying more or having to have very long rental agreements. we have a weird property market in the Uk and some changes would mean many people left in negative equity not able to sell not able to rent.

Unless you have some revolutionary very specific evidenced based recommendations - all you are doing is writing letters to people (shelter) to people who are already 'dealing' with this problem. It may make you feel better and I have no problem with that.

A decent LA would have asked for a copy of the consent to let form - he may have been shown a fake that are available for download on the internet.

Not trying to dismiss your experience but do feel you are very fixated on something that in the great scheme of things is a bit inconsequential.

What we really need is a huge social house building program that would cure many of the renting ill's without legislation