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Mother taking son away..?(71 Posts)
Name changed as asking for a family member...
Dad and mum are married. They live together in England and have a young son (2).
Mothers life (aside from the marriage) in England is not going well (though she has lived here for nearly 10 years and they've been together for over 8) in terms of friendships and career.
She wants to go home to Northern Ireland, but father doesn't want to go. She's had enough, she's handed in notice at work and is taking their son to Ireland to live with her family. (Marriage has been absolutely fine!) she asked him to come, due to his employment and financial responsibilities he can't leave, and doesn't want to. There's no job for him there and he doesn't want to just live with her family.
Can she just take their son?? A bit of an emergency as she is apparently leaving in 2 weeks. He is devastated.
Anything he can do, at all?? Seems a bit of a grey area google wise as its still in the uk. (But clearly still a plane ride away!!) he's an amazing dad, they both work and have 50/50 care of him splitting their days off with a nanny too to cover childcare.) this will destroy him.
horse if you had a ounce of sense you would know that these two people would have already talked, they have probably been taking for months. Surely the OP doesn't need to tell you this ?
horse you are presuming they don't have a mortgage here, just how is the husband supposed to up sticks and move ? In your world I suppose he could just ring the mortgage company and say "I love my wife so I am leaving the country to somewhere I have no job and probably won't find one, so I am really sorry I won't be paying the mortgage this month of probably for the foreseeable future" ?
and im not a man. how strange you would assume that
Good Grief. Try to remember folks this thread actually isn't about me.
Horse assumes I'm a man too. Ok, I have a mans name, but it pays never to make assumptions. You'd do well to remember that Horse.
Well, my family is in a different continent, but I would never take my child away from his father. This is a selfish woman thinking first about her needs that that of her family (her husband and child are her family).
She needs to sort out her feelings, but she cannot deprive her child of a dad.
Horse, to be fair, if you werent posting such attention-grabbing ludicrous hypocritical posts then people wouldn't be responding to you.
But you are, and then moaning that people have the audacity to call you on them
We are all just going off the OP, which doesnt show the DW in the best light at all, which I am sure will be taken into account. Times are thankfully changing and courts no longer just assume that the DCs will always be better off with their mothers. Especially, if as appears to be the case here, the mother is only thinking of herself and not the best interests of the child.
Have any of you noticed especially Brian and HTW that the OP has not posted again after her original OP. She got the info she needed in the post from a legal expert very soon after she posted. I think all this squabbling is irrelevant because none of us know what are behind these posts. I have noticed that there is a lot of this going on lately and I admit to being guilty of being drawn into squabbles on some of these threads.
Maybe it's the "nature of the beast" as we can all post anonymously and freely and accusations and counter accusations can be made etc. I'm not sure what the answer is. One thing though I do think people jump to conclusions very quickly and dish out advice in a definitive manner, which is sometimes totally incorrect (this happened on a legal thread very recently). We make judgements about the "rights and wrongs" of situations and at the end of it all, we are but a few lines of text on a screen.
Maybe I should have started a new thread on this but would be interested in any comments on this issue.
Thank you Nananina, this is why, rather than assuming that the mother was simply running off with the father's child out of spite, I was trying to get OP to encourage his friend to talk to her and find out what's up.
Giving rash legal advice is never a good idea based on one single OP. Ask some questions first.
Yes I did notice NanaNina. But doesn't mean that people have to stop posting. And ops often come back days later.
im bowing out now as i have a feeling i know what the agenda is and dont want to waste any more time on it.
op, hope he gets this sorted
I agree discussion and negotiation is the best way forward when at all possible. Someone recently did some research and found the court granted permission to move in 70% of court cases when the dispute was about relocating in the UK. Going to court tends to leave parents feeling resentful and resistant. The last thing someone needs is to be living a distance away from their children with the other parent who is hostile.
However when agreement cannot be reached the correct thing to do would be for the parent wanting to relocate with the children to apply to court for permission rather than acting unilaterally. If a mother (or father for that matter) is intent on moving without discussion or permission from the courts the other parent has little option other than to apply to court for a PSO to prevent the move so that negotiation can take place. That way the court investigate and at ensure arrangements for contact and travel are in place before the move. Leaving it until after the move would mean the parent left behind would be at a disadvantage.
That should read "the court can investigate and at least ensure arrangements for travel and contact are in place.. "
Call me an optimist but I think the vast majority of women want their child to have regular contact with the father. Some women may think they don't want contact, but go on to regret it later on when the child grows up and asks questions. It is this long term view that I like to try to get people to see.
When your children are young and you don't have confidence in the future you don't see the bigger picture and how your actions affect your child long term. A child is an adult-to-be. They will have their own children, they will make up their own minds as they get older. If OP's friend and his wife could both see this I'm sure they would come up with a compromise and put the boxing gloves away. It's not about them, it's about their child and his future.
Wow, thank you for all these replies!
I've spoken to him and he's looking into a prohibited steps order. She refuses to discuss anything, she says she loves him but she needs to go home. Hopefully they can work it out before anything drastic has to be done.
I've just read through and there were a few questions.
They have a very recent mortgage, barely a year into being paid for. Selling now wouldn't be smart, conveyancing fees, stamp duty etc. and they can't rent it out because there isn't enough equity in the property.
That isn't the biggest thing, as he has said he obviously wants to be with them both, but her brother, BIL, sisters and father are all out of work. He has looked into it but there really is no work. He can't leave credit card debt, car finance, mortgage etc and walk away from a steady job he has been doing for nearly 20 years.
He's not an unreasonable person, they go to Ireland very regularly at the sacrifice of family holidays and other luxuries. He spends every Christmas there with her family instead of with his side. She has been having a bad time at work, she's just had enough. It's very hard.
OP he is doing the right thing, if he moves to Ireland they will be financial shit. If he moves too and it doesn't work out, he will find it very hard to get back on his feet again and it will all have been for nothing. Best of luck to him.
Perhaps he suggests to her that he takes a couple of weeks off and she can go back to visit her family on her own, check out the work situation etc etc, look for flats, etc etc and he can look after the baby?
By the sound of the way things are with her family she will very likely come back quickly.
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