What happens if I don't abide by a contact order?

[SonShines]

I have a a residence order and a prohibited steps order in place. exP is going to get an amended contact order from the courts.

The contact that he wants is not feasible as far as we are concerned. DS doesn't want the additional. I've not the time/money/patience to get pulled along into another court battle so I am leaving him to it.

What happens if I don't abide by a contact order? For example, if the contact order says Saturday 9 - 6, but I don't drop DS off, what will happen? Legally I mean.

[mumblechum1]

You are liable to a fine, community service, or, in extreme cases, imprisonment.

You will be ordered to "make the child available for contact". Whether your ex can force your DS to go with him is another matter. Why can't your ex come to your house to collect>

How old is your DS?

[SonShines]

He's 7.

He'll take him whether he wants to or not. He's taken him kicking and screaming in the past.

He wants to up the contact, but DS is happy with the way it is. (First time he's been happy about contact in a long time)

[ItsDecisionTime]

I'm in a similar situation with a child who is slightly older and categorically refuses additional contact with her father. Go to court, represent yourself, talk about the rights of the child. At most, you're going to be in court once or twice over a two month period. You should initially suggest that CAFCASS to put together a wishes and feelings report so that your son's opinion is taken into consideration. Better than being on the wrong side of a court order and all the wasted time/money/patience that will come from that. Good luck.

[SonShines]

Thank you

Can you represent yourself? I'm a bit daunted by the thought tbh...

[3xcookedchips]

You haven't really given enough info...

1. Why isn't it feasible?
   
   
2. What is the current contact schedule?
   
   
3. What is the ex asking for now?
   
   
4. What are the reasons your son is giving why he doesn't want to go.
   
   
5. How do you respond to these objections?
   
   A 7 year old is too young to be allowed to make such decisions w.r.t. whether he should go or not and if you have your childs interests you should be supporting this. If you feel you cant then go ahead and break the order. Your ex will be within his rights to inform the police of repeated breaches and this may count against you when you go back to court. Do you really want to have to keep going back to court for enforcement when you have already stated you don't have the time/patience/money? Its in your child interest to have a meaningful relationship with both parents if there are no welfare concerns.

[Feelslikea1sttimer]

It is incredibly easy to represent yourself and imo it is looked on favourably by judges.

As long as you are polite to the judge and have a look online so you have an idea of what you are asking for. I found when I was representing myself after the bills racked up into 10's of thousands, that I actually came out better than when a solicitor was dealing with the case.

One Tip... Always be incredibly honest with the judge even if it is not necessarily in your favour as they recognise this and if they like you it is easy to make a decision in your favour.

I have been through the court system for the past 5 .5 years with my ex taking things back when it didn't suit him but if it means your son gets what HE wants then it will be worth it. Give me a shout if I can help in any way.

[RainbowConnections]

Some long winded factual detail about what the court can do. Non of it is a reflection of what might happen in your case, and actually I doubt enforcement powers are widely used at all. I am not a lawyer and am a rusty brained SAHM for a few years so take this into consideration... Lots of detail sorry but I'm glad of the distraction today!

Court has power to imprison (and change the residence arrangements) and/or fine the non compliant parent. These powers are rarely - I'd say never but there are probably some very rare examples - used as wouldn't be seen to be in child's best interests.

In the last 5 years any contact order made or varied should, I believe, have a warning notice attached that should inform that, if the order is not complied with, an enforcement order could be made. If your exPs original contact order was made in the last five years you should be able to read the wording of this warning on your copy.

Your exP would have to apply for an enforcement order. An order made could require you to complete up to 200 hours community service. He could also apply for financial compensation for loss incurred, eg, if a holiday was missed as a result of the non-compliance.

A judge can also require a parent to attend mediation or a parenting class if he thinks helpful.

Court Service leaflets CB5 and CB1 might be useful for you to read.

Re representing yourself, you can actually ask the court to have a friend with you, known as a Mackenzie friend. They can't address the court, but can help you take notes etc, and generally support you, make it less daunting. Again, I emphasise I'm no expert on this but worth checking out. I think there will be more and more people representing themselves in the future.

[SonShines]

Thank you so much for replying everyone.
3x -

1. He is asking for midweek overnight stay. We live 5 mins from Ds's school, exP lives 30 mins + away, so it seems a waste to be travelling an extra hour+. Wednesday is the only day no one has any after school activities (I have 2 other children). It is the day that DS goes to friends/has friends over (from across the street etc. Also, it's the day that each DS gets to go to Grandmas for tea (they take it in turns).
   
   
2. Current contact is fortnightly from school pick up Friday to school drop off Monday (just been extended to the Monday as a compromise from me instead of the Wednesday, but exDP now wants both)
   
   
3. As above ^ midweek stay.
   
   
4. DS is very particular about routine, and has just got to grips with things the way they are. He likes that he knows it's every other weekend and wants to keep it this way. It was his initial suggestion to extend his normal weekends. He's now get anxious about it as exDP is badgering him about it being too long between stays and asking why he doesn't want to go.

[betterthanever]

Can I ask why he didn't ask for the midweek contact to start with? and how long the current contact order has been in place and what you were disagreeing over then that is had to go to court?
When you say you don't want to get involved, do you mean if your ex takes you to court to `vary' the current order you were planning to just not attend?

[SonShines]

He's only been bothered about regular contact for the last couple of years, contact has gone form every other Saturday and increased steadily to the current arrangement.

The current court order is not relevant (never really has been adhered to, by him), and so he wants to get it amended, fair enough. But now he wants this extra. I've offered 1 weds a month, or every other but cutting back weekend contact so that we can take DS to his cricket match (his Dad won't take him), but he's not budging. He's also asking to see DS on birthdays/fathers day/christmas (never been bothered before. For Christmas I've offered 12 Xmas eve until 12 Xmas day, swapping each year, but this year he wants DS from 20th Dec until 6pm on the 25th. Again, not budging.

So he's instructed a solicitor to amend the court order to reflect these new requests.

[honey86]

why on earth anyone can think that forcing a child to go with their dad when the child genuinely doesnt want to is beyond me! theres a line between encouraging contact and forcing it on them. how is that in the childs best interest? biased in favour of the nrp's interest in just exercising their 'rights' and whats convenient for them. well children have a 'right' to express themselves at any age, and not giving them the freedom to do that based on self-entitlement is selfish.

do what you feel is best for your child. if it goes back to court, lay out your reasons and circumstances to show them why its best. they cant throw you in prison for doing whats right.
ignore the whole 'thats not fair on dad its not equal' fathers rights shizzle its about the children not him. xx

[betterthanever]

well said honey
From what you have said OP, this will be a variation then and his `side' will use the changing needs of your DS as an excuse I would imagine, even though as honey said you know it is his own self entitlement he is concerned with. You can rep. yourself and I would suggest you do. You would need to give the history - just factual mind no emotion i.e. what contact he actually had following the last order. The current status quo is important and DS will get a say if cafcass get involved, which is rarer these days. There is sadly a big chance if his sol pushes hard that he may get that mid week day esp. if you don't turn up at court. But and this is where you can come in, if you encourage it fine your DS can't be forced and he can't be taken kicking and screaming... if he tries call the police. It is never about contact per se it has to be the quality of the contact and if your exp will not take him to cricket for example then that will not be helping the relationship. let us know if they do take this to court, hopefully not - does he have plenty money to do it?

[3xcookedchips]

Honey: if your son/daughter woke up one monday morning and said they were refusing to go to school what would you do?

[SonShines]

3x... if Ds was anxious to the point that he compltely shut down, started consistently wetting the bed and was visible distressed at the school gates, and the teacher dragged him in telling him to shut up and not be so silly then actually, I wouldn't send him in, no.

[SonShines]

betterthanever - plenty of money unfortunately

[3xcookedchips]

Is his father such a poor parent that this is the result? Appreciate you feel you have a dilemma but is there anything you can do to help your son through the transition? Could it be the anxiety of both parents that are a contributing factor. 7 is regarded by the courts as too young to be considered for W&F so in the event your ex gets what he's after you will need to be seen as supporting of contact. Not saying its right in your situation, but that's just the way it can be.

[betterthanever]

I love the school line.... if her DS/DD woke up tomorrow morning and said they didn't want to go to school, the reason why would be looked into I am pretty sure... well by good parents anyway.

And there is only so much parents can do to support contact, they don't and should not be expected to damage thier own relationship with the DC - in what other situation would you do this?

The bottom line for me is the benefit to the child of the contact and the quality of the contact. 7/8 is not too young for W&F to be taken into accocunt, at least that is not what cafcass have said to me and a friend's son was only 5 when his W/F were taken into account (that was regarding overnight's as he didn't want them immediatley after a split).

I don't think the parent/s has to be poor for this result - we are talking about human beings here and sometimes they don't have good relationships with each other no matter what thier DNA is.

[SonShines]

3X - You have no idea how much we have tried and supported their relationship, we have gone above and beyond. This is my DS we are talking about, his life, his relationships, his Dad. As much as I want to slam the door on him and never open it again I understand how important it is that Ds gets every opportunity to build a strong bond with his biological father. I can't make DS like him, I can't make DS want to go, but I can help him to build his relationship with him in a way that he feels comfortable, which means listening to DS and finding a middle ground that everyone is happy with. Unfortunately for us the only way exP is happy with is his way, and I'm not, and I'm certainly not going to let DS, going to be bullied by him, or a court.

[honey86]

your comparing a childs decision on seeing a nrp to attending compulsory education. typical pro-fathers rights views.
you clearly havent got a clue, if the nrp is such a good riteous parent then why would that parents own child kick and scream to try and avoid going with him?

let me guess: ' parental alienation' another common excuse.

ive seen this in another child, wanted to stay with mum. courts ordered the contact. childs behaviour went downhill. the dad is now being investigated for abuse. only after the child was victim to it and it messed her up. forced to see him cos 'shes too young to decide'.

ive said it once and ill say it again. SOD fathers rights- childrens rights come first. build a bridge.

[betterthanever]

honey it is a documentary waiting to be filmed.. children dragged kicking and screaming - can you imagine what a 30 second clip of this would create in terms of public opinion. I understand the need to keep children's identities secret but the publc need to know what people are suggesting never mind actually doing to little children.

[honey86]

honestly the crap that some nrps have bleated out lately.... is beyond belief! we'd get shot to pieces by the public if we'd allow unstable/abusive/bad parents to have contact with a child whos distressed at the thought, only for news of child abuse/neglect to arise. not to mention child protection!

yet if we try n say no and allow the child to stay we get fathers rights and 'shes alienating the child' shite rammed down our throats. whats a parent to do!?

[honey86]

another thing ive been dumbfounded by is how many men think its ok to just take a child without the rp's permission just because they have pr. just because its legal, it doesnt make it right.

[Collaborate]

No matter what you think, you've had your say before a judge, and they didn't agree with you. If there has been a material change in circumstance since the order was made, then take it back to court and try and get the order changed. Mumblechum has summed up how the court may deal with you disobeying a court order. Slagging off the judge/the process/the father isn't going to help.

[SonShines]

Collaborate - what makes you say the judge didn't agree with me?

[NicknameIncomplete]

Have u tried mediation or family therapy to understand why ur ds doesnt want to go and so that his dad can see the issue?