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Cannot get unfaithful H to leave(46 Posts)
I have informed my cheating H that I am commencing the divorce process, but he doesn't seem to want to leave.
As far as I am aware, he is still involved with OW, and thus has a willing and open pair of
legs arms into which to fall. She has her own house, and (AFAIK) has made it clear that he is welcome to move in with her.
For at least a year he has been telling me he is "leaning towards" leaving. I reached the stage a long time ago where I have told him to go if that's what he wants. It seems that the more I tell him to go, the more he wants to stay.
I outright asked him to leave a few weeks ago, and was told to "go whistle" and "it's my house". He is away on a work trip (with OW) currently, and I sent an e-mail telling him I was starting the divorce. He responded that he thinks "there is still room for discussion here", and that his address for correspondence is still our home address because he has "no reason to make it any other".
I am completely floored by this. I have assumed for a long time that he didn't want to be seen as the bad guy and was therefore waiting and hoping that I would ask him to leave, divorce him, whatever. I cannot believe that he is stubborn enough to stay even through the divorce process, and I cannot imagine what OW might be thinking
although have little sympathy.
What are my options here? Do I actually have any options apart from ploughing ahead with the divorce? Can anyone shed any light on his mindset, or what legal advice HE may have received?
The house is in his name so I know he technically has a legal right to live here until the divorce process and financials are complete. I have registered matrimonial home rights, and received legal advice re financials. There has been no significant violence. There are 2 DCs involved, a toddler and one in primary school.
The temptation to remove his stuff in bin bags is immense, but I don't think I'm legally allowed to and fear that he would use it against me, and it would distress our oldest DC. I was hoping for a straightforward and minimally acrimonious divorce, but I don't think I'm going to get one.
Thanks for listening.
I am not sure what the answer is however,can I suggest you also post this on the relationships board. Tonnes of help there.
I'd say just get on with it. Why not issue the petn now, and when he gets it he'll start talking about the finances ime.
But of course you can't throw him out unless there's DV,in which case you'd have to issue an injunction appln
i do feel for you OP but you cant legally get him out, if he intends to go on a go slow with the divorce it could be well over a year before the divorce ends even then if the house has to be sold as part of the divorce he can stay there until its sold!! so it would be a case of having to put up with the situation or move out into rented yourself for your own sanity, but if u do move out it would mean you would not be able to go back and live in the FMH after the divorce.
You will need to plough ahead with the divorce. Hire a solicitor formally. Inform him, or let them inform him, that there is no room for discussion beyond discussing the divorce.
Don't leave the house! He won't, but such is life.
I was/am in a similar situation - unfaithful H, although he initiated the separation, refused to move out, house in his name only, etc etc.
I don't know about yours, but mine has an extremely controlling nature and as the divorce has progressed, the fact that his control over me is lessening is making him behave in unpredictable ways - I've recently had to take him to court to try and get him to leave me alone - he was continually calling the police and trying to get me arrested, wasting police time, so embarrassing.
I also recommend that you go to see a solicitor ASAP and plough on with petitioning him. At some point he will have to take notice.
In my case, H started staying elsewhere although still refuses to either let me know where that is nor to change his correspondence address. I have a feeling this is to protect his position, particularly as he has cited from the get-go that the only reason he is staying somewhere else is because I am apparently incapable of remaining civil to him in front of the children.
Our divorce is turning out to be horribly acrimonious - not what I wanted at all - and will no doubt be expensive. I hope the same doesn't turn out to be true for you. Don't be afraid though, I felt so much better when I took a stand and hand-delivered the petition myself, having decided that morning and filled the forms in straight away. None of it is as scary as you think and there is a lot of support and advice out there once you start looking. Are you a SAHM?
Regarding your rights to get him to leave, as far as I've been told he has a right to be here if he chooses, unless you feel threatened in which case you can try to get an occupation order; or if he has somewhere else to stay. It is hideous but tell yourself that this time will pass, and soon you will be in the next stage, etc etc. I already feel a lot lighter and freer than I did. The future is bright.
Definitely see a solicitor and go ahead with the divorce. You don't need his permission or his co-operation to start proceedings. You can't, unfortunately, force him out unless there has been violence, but you can treat him with calm indifference when he's actually in the house, and walk away from any discussion.
Thanks for the comments. I am resolved to press ahead with this divorce, and have been filling in the statement of arrangements today. I did think initially about posting it in relationships, but I didn't want advice to bin-bag his stuff and lock him out; I needed the legal perspective.
I am not planning to move out (unless my sanity is seriously threatened). I was advised as such by my solicitor, and this is my children's home, and right in the middle of my support network. We are not "over-housed".
No significant violence - yes, rather embarrassingly, there has been some, but six-of-one-half-dozen-of--the-other if I'm honest. Certainly out of character for me, and I think out of character for him. As an example - I got hold of his mobile phone (early in 2012) and was trying to find OW's number to call her to tell her to come and pick him and his things up - he held my wrist so tightly I had to let go of the phone. Another time (early 2013) I was trying to take a holdall full of his stuff downstairs (to throw it out onto the drive) and there was a bit of argy-bargy as he (successfully) tried to stop me - he did actually raise a fist at one point but thought better of it. On the other side of the coin, early on in all this, I was trying to push him out of the bedroom at one point and bent his finger back. He's also had a few soft toys and pillows thrown at him at various points.
I don't want to make a big thing of the violence - it really is petty playground stuff - and it would immediately move all of this onto a significantly more acrimonious plane. I don't want to get embroiled in arguments about who started what, and I certainly don't want to be the one who is forced to leave the house if he were to successfully argue that he was at risk from me. "Calm indifference" is my aspiration and I have been achieving that consistently for the last few months (as the emotional pain and trauma has numbed and I have become more settled and resolute). However, he is a very convincing liar and debater, and I think I could possibly come off worse if we got into these arguments.
HeliumHeart - I'm sorry you are in a similar situation. Thanks for posting.
It's interesting what you say about a contolling nature and unpredictable behaviour. It's interesting that the only times H has lost his temper are those times when I've tried to take control and get him to leave. When I've tried to get him to leave by calm discussion and/or e-mails, he just has ignored me.
I told him by e-mail yesterday that he shouldn't return here from his work trip, but should go straight to OW's house. I said I felt that this would be better for our toddler, who has now adjusted to his overnight absence. He responded "I have no plans to sleep elsewhere tomorrow night; where do you expect me to go? I can't realistically get a B&B! I don't want to stay at [OW]'s. Is it reasonable to simply turn me away from my own house?". So he's due back here any time now... Gulp.. I thought if I made a fuss about it, he'd be even more likely to use his rights to return, knowing it distressed me. So I am planning to rise above it
with the assistance of a neighbour 3 doors down and a nice bottle of red.
I hope this doesn't turn unnecessarily acrimonious, but I fear it might.
I am not an SAHM. I have a decent job, albeit part time and not brilliantly paid. I could afford to take on this house based on the likely settlement that my solicitor has advised. So I'm in a pretty good position compared to many.
Rise above. He's trying to have his cake and eat it, too.
Rise above it.
Take this as how it's going to be till the divorce is over.
I'd petition for divorce if I were you, it works out better ime at least it gives you some semblance of control.
How are you living right now? Could you live as if he's just a flat mate? Do your own thing with you & kids & he can get on with his life. Would that be workable?
Don't fall into the trap of bending over backward to be accommodating to him he sounds like he'd walk all over you given a chance. Take control of this situation, how do you want to proceed, follow that.
Crack on - till you divorce & sort the financials you won't be able to stop him from entering the house.
As Mumblechum and babybarrister, both extremely experienced family lawyers have said, crack on and issue and then he will be forced to deal with things. Once the divorce is underway you can turn to dealing with the ancillary relief (finances).
Unfortunately, unless there is DV/grounds for an occupation order, you can't force him to move out but perhaps once he realises you are serious about divorce he will decide to move out.
Thanks. Without saying too much, I think your tactic is a good one. Keep grounded, and be assured that you are doing the right thing. In case you need it reiterating, your husband sounds outrageous - I think you will feel infinitely better when you start taking some of that control back.
Also: Don't cook or clean for him, or do his laundry (as your DC is only a toddler s/he will not notice or question this). If he says anything, reply calmly that the marriage is over and therefore he can make his own domestic arrangements. Politely ignore him unless it's necessary to speak to him. This man wants a reaction from you, all the time, because it's vital to him that you NOTICE HIM AND HIS MIGHTY PENIS! You're supposed to be grief-stricken and desperate for him not to leave! He probably hopes to be able to keep both you and OW in a state of constant competition for his Mighty Penis; it's not about wanting to leave you for her, it's about his irresistibility...
I'm guessing he's been advised by someone not the leave the house. It could be a solicitor or just a friend saying 'Whatever you do, don't leave the house or she'll get it'. As you say, he has a place to stay with the OW, so he's making a deliberate decision to stay - probably to stake his claim and also, it sounds like, to piss you off.
I'd just do everything you can to expedite things. Get all your paperwork in order and get the divorce petition filed. He may try to hold things up, but you should be as efficient as you can.
I have had experience of 2 women I knew, who, because they had a dependant , the solicitors forced the men out of the house, under the law that the woman and child stayed in the house and the man had to leave.
One was in a flat owned by her DH's firm, the other was a house owned by the DH.
So, has the law changed in 20 years?
Forcing out by injunction, and forcing out by a property settlement are 2 completely different things.
I know nothing of the law and do know those advising up thread will have done so correctly (and they certainly did so kindly). I just wanted to say I am sorry you are in this position.
It seems to me that the way your husband is treating you and your children is emotionally abusive ('flaunting' an affair, and making no steps to resolve the situation by either divorce/moving out or by ending the affair).
Yet the law requires physical abuse, before you can force him to move, while awaiting the division of property? Intolerable!
Who was it that said "The law's an ass"?
He is entitled to be in the house, as are you. And unfortunately if you move his stuff to a different bedroom and put a lock on the bedroom door, he is legally entitled to remove that lock.
If his solicitor has any wit, he'll have been told not to leave the house.
Morally's a different issue, but legally he has every bit as much right to be there as you do.
So sorry you're in this position.
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