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CSA advice for a man.(171 Posts)
hope you don't mind if I ask a question and get your opinion, I will try to relay the facts without exaggeration and keep it short.
I have a 12 year old son who I have supported financially and spent alternate weekends with him since birth, i have a legally signed PRA form.
For 10 years I have given him mum between £350 and £400 / month till 2011. In addition I pay for his social needs, clothing, educational aids, school uniform, entertainment, Tennis lessons, kick boxing, gymnastics, swimming, theatre, private tennis coaching, mobile phone bills, opened a savings account, started a Junior ISA and saturday language classes.
I am a normal guy on an average London salary, before my own mortgage and bills and expenses.
My son is mad about tennis and so we agreed to cut his other activities and focus on that, he competes at junior level and wants to be a Professional, tennis is not an easy or cheap sport, alot of coaching and matches and ferrying around, which is costly and time consuming, but happily deal with.
During that time, I have been falsely accused of assaulting her, reported to police, her family verbally attacking me, my son being told im irresponsible father, and was never there for him as a baby, I hit her, bullied her, im a liar and unreliable, cutting our phone conversations short, hanging up his phone when I call, not taking him to tennis matches on her weekend, I am not allowed to take him either.
I have put up with this for a long time and decided it has to stop now. I normally just ignore it all and carry on, but im starting to despise her deeply and the image she has portrayed me to be, to my son.
As of this month I stopped the monthly direct debit to her and decided to pay his needs myself to the parties concerned. I Contacted the mediation people and explained the situation, before going to court. I have not taken this step before as I dont want to harm my son. I want her to take up her issues with me not him, I feel she must not involve or attempt to influence his feelings towards me with false accusations.
30mins ago, I received a call from the CSA.
If I pay her directly, all his activities will stop, no tennis, no savings policy, no ISA, no meaningful sport, she has made it clear she does not want him to be a tennis player, but he has his heart set on playing tennis.
If I prove I invest over and above what I should pay her, and he gets what he needs, does this matter to the CSA? Will they be happy with that? I can prove all of the above.
Apologies, no short way to explain.
MOSMAN - I hear you, but childhood is over very quickly, I cant sit by and watch and hope, I would feel I failed in my duty to protect.
That's right, keep paying, keep in touch and the ex will have minimal influence for another 4 years tops. There's then another 40 years for you and your child to have a relationship.
I just don't get this at all.
You said in the OP that you paid until 2011 then say you stopped this month.... What happened in 2012?
You say that you've been paying over the odds yet seem very upset that your ex has gone to the CSA...
You say you're ex had been de-valuing you as a parent, yet throughout your posts you have said that she doesn't put your son first, doesn't care what he want's to do as she won't take him to 'your' activities on the her weekend and haven't said a good word about her even though she is his primary carer. You are doing the same!
Now you seem to be very cross that rather than engage and be bullied by your withdrawing CM she has gone to the CSA instead. How very dare she
You want her to fund the activities YOU want... if she doesn't she's wrong.
She has to 'explain' where her CM is going or it gets stopped!
She gives you a breakdown and not accepting it you start quizzing other parents... come on, seriously ..
You sound like you are trying to micromanage her life and pretty controlling tbh.
Pay what you are supposed to. What she does with it (tablets or whatever) is up to her. Then if YOU want him to do other stuff that is up to you. Simple!
Whether you like it or not, what you have done is willingly pay over the odds in order to exert control over your ex, your son and their time together. I'm AMAZED that she pandered to your request to know what the money goes on. Why do you think she did that? It sounds to me like she's scared of and fed up with dealing with you and that's why she's gone to the CSA despite the likely drop in income for her and for your son.
Pay exactly what you are asked to pay. Any money over that you want to spend on your son YOU can spend on him, rather than giving to his mother - as though she was in your employ as a 24/7 nanny - and practically expecting receipts! This is not the expenses scandal (as you mentioned early on) because she hasn't been demanding more money and then refusing to account for it. You've been giving it willingly then demanding an explanation as to exactly what it went on. Can't you see how unreasonable that is?
Maybe you could think of more creative ways of using your money to improve your son's life without trying to control his mother? And I mean that in the nicest possible way.
if someone tells you often enough that the person you love called dad is a twat - eventually you snap and fight back or you listen and weep as the respect for the person telling you your father is a twat diminishes and leads to a wedge being driven between you and that other person - whoever they are .
it is very different from someone keeping telling you that you are ugly as your ds mother is not constantly telling her own son he is ugly she is bad mouthing her ds father, from what you have said. This is where she will drive a wedge and ruin her own relationship with her ds, which is indeed very sad.
If your ds wants to play tennis then it is him that is going to have to tell his mum what he wishes to do, you need to leave his choices to voice his own opinion, as long as you are prepared to take him to all his games etc and not expect her to do this then carry on and let your ds know that if that is what he want you will support him - but only if it is what he wants to do.
Look, it's actually quite simple, legally.
She has gone to the CSA; now, unless she chooses to close the case, you are stuck with it. For maximum clarity for all, go with the CSA, pay what they assess, and then she will get a guaranteed level of maintenance for supporting your child.
If she chooses not to pay for tennis lessons - which she may not do - then you can consider paying for those on top. They cannot be construed as "essentials" which is what maintenance is for. The CSA maintenance is never going to be half of what it actually costs to support a teenager (food, bills, clothing, some entertainment etc).
There is little you can do about what she says about you, other than reinforce how much you love your son when you see him. What she says about you and how much maintenance you pay are NOT connected, and if you try to make them, you will just end up where you are now anyway - with the CSA on your back. You don't get to know what she spends the maintenance on.
Im lost, what parenting issue? im not questioning her parenting style or dictating what she spends money she earns, where are you getting this from?
Just so I understand, the rules are I pay without question, voluntarily, in excess of minimum amounts, no ceiling amount, in addition buy school uniforms, clothes, shoes, toiletries, school fees, books, extra curicular activities, phone bills, feed savings .....etc
Then lie down and take the crap too???
I cant, just cant.
Oh for heavens sake.
"Just so I understand, the rules are I pay without question, voluntarily, in excess of minimum amounts, no ceiling amount, in addition buy school uniforms, clothes, shoes, toiletries, school fees, books, extra curicular activities, phone bills, feed savings .....etc"
No. The rules are you pay what the CSA assesses. If you choose to spend more on things that you decide your child wants/needs, that is up to you.
Ignore the crap, if you don't engage it may decline. Just reassure your son on a regular basis that you love him. You can't force your ex to change, all you can do is moderate the influence by reassuring your son.
Enlightening discussion, never got a response to most of what I asked, the body of discussion weighted heavily towards money, and my action.
But, fair enough, food for thought.
If I don't reply after this point, the account has been deleted, not hiding
You tend to get good legal advice on this forum. Whether you're a man or woman.
But on the more emotional side I've tried to work out why men's posts get picked to pieces and more assumptions made than when a women posts.
And I assume its because it's a predominantly female website, most resident parents are mothers, so I think that's the view point you get
Seeing your child every other weekend and getting undermined as a parent must be horrible. But I think you have to take the high ground, what's the option? None really unless you want to upset your son.
Anyway just think this isn't forever.
Because you posted on Legal Matters and asked for CSA advice.
Repost "my ex is bad mouthing me to our son" on Rrlationships and that is what you will get advice on - quite likely from some of the same posters.
But, if I summarise, what you asked was if it was fair for your son's mother to go to the CSA for a maintenance assessment and award rather than to accept you ceasing direct payments to her and instead making direct payments to third parties for his support and activities.
You have been consistently advised that you have an obligation to pay support for your child direct to his mother and that if you cannot agree that privately the CSA will make a judgement and award on behalf of both of you.
Dadde he hasn't been picked to pieces. He's been pulled up a couple of times when he's conflated money/access/behaviour. I think if you look at other threads along the lines of 'my ex won't pay child support so I'm not letting him see dc' posters will invariably advise that, whilst it's a pisser, you can't do it.
Agree with jayho. If a woman posts that she is linking contact with money, she will be pulled up pretty sharpish.
I didnt want to say it, and prefer to argue my case than claim unfair bias, but your right, it clearly is.
If the roles were reversed and I did that to her.....?
Incorrect summary, I asked do CSA take into account the money I spend outside of what I pay her, thats an entirely different matter.
That question was answered several times in the first few posts. What else were you looking for?
Alternate weekends, holidays, christmas, birthdays etc
No formal CSA agreement
Never married or living together
Volunteered £400/month for essentials + occasional other requested
School fees yearly
School clothes and shoes
Normal clothes and shoes
Additional saturday support classes
Saturday language classes
Various Sports activities
School away days
School building fund
Mobile Phone bill.
Winter clothes (in and out of school)
Son has fully stocked essentials at my home
2008 agreed to support and finance his tennis lessons
2011 - discussed cutting back what I pay and she contribute more
First and ONLY missed payment January 2012
CSA called yesterday, did not get to speak to them
My original question was do CSA take into account any of the above.....the answer was no.
I will refrain from mentioning anything else or what my son wants or how he feels or tennis, as that so far has largely been ignored.
Hopefully not missed anything out.
No the CSA require the 15% of your net income to go to her. I think the only variation is if you are paying the mortgage.
I am merely answering the questions put to me, I respectfully suggest you ignore this thread.
The CSA don't take into account what you pay for directly except travel expenses.
I think what has happened is that things are so acrimonious that you have exerted control by stopping money which has caused her to exert control by threatening to stop the tennis or whatever and go to CSA. By arguing between yourselves your son will suffer.
However....say your total current financial support is made up of x amount of cash direct to ex and y spent on activities. It maybe be that if x and y went direct to ex that out of her total budget she couldn't afford to spend y on tennis. Who knows but I can see where this would make things more difficult between you.
I think optional expenses can be big contentions in separated couples
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