Do i have rights as a mother to challenge social services and my ex?

[smiles007]

Dilemna, in short, can i insist that my 4 yr old daughter is re-questioned regarding an alleged disclosure she apparently made to my ex's new partner about her 12 year old brother?
My ex has always made it obvious that he wants his daughter with him even though in the beginning he insisted on a dna test to csa, whilst still having access. I could have stopped this until test was done, but did not. Eventually he opted not to go ahead with test as it was going to cost him money.
My ex who is a playworker in a childrens centre has recently moved in with his new partner who is a support worker and has in the past done work with myself and my son.
Both these people know that over the years i have had problems with my son, but they also know that i have done my absolute best to get advice and support to help with things. This has not always been easy and sometimes i have had to do self-referrals.
I believe they are both putting words into my daughters mouth and convincing her that her brother is nasty and naughty. I believe the reason for doing it, is to use it against me to apply for custody.
My son was interviewed accordingly and only had my partner and duty solicitor sit in with him. He denied everything, but social services work on statistics and probablility. Can i challenge this?
They are saying my daughter cannot and will not be questioned again, and i will have to accept, we may never get to the truth.
This is so damaging and i cannot believe this is allowed to happen.
I suggested to her dad that we try and get to the bottom of it, as her parents we need to find out what might be really happening to her. He was very hostile and shouted to me, that no one, not me, not him, or anyone would be questioning her again.
My argument on this, is if it was his son, being accused, his attitude would be different.
My concern is my daughter, i have been having sleepless nights and nightmares thinking that if it's not happened from this end, then is it happening there.
As he has parental responsibilty, he has opted to keep my daughter, and i have had to go to solicitor to get access, even though Social worker said he had to make sure i still got to see her, as i've not done anything wrong.
This is such a short version of events, and cannot convey our character and honesty, but i believe, my ex has done this in spite to gain his daughter especially now he has moved in with a partner who is a support worker. Between them, they know the law and what happens, and they will know that, my daughter cannot be questioned, so therefore they get away with it.
I have been left, in the dark, with no immediate support for myself or my son, while the social worker allocated went off on her 10 day hols.
Not fantastic, due to my son having high anxiety levels anyway, and me just being a mother to two children who i felt that i was taking good care of. They really are never on their own. In fact my partner always jokes when he comes, as he says, i see the ambilical cord is still attached then!!!
The question is, who is right? Social Services and my ex, saying she should not be questioned?
My daughter is quite willful and does not take any crap from anyone, and in fact does her best to wind her brother up.
She has told me, she wants to come back to live and sleep and that she is not afraid of me or her brother.

[shinyblackgrape]

I'm a bit confused - sorry, probably me. I would get urgent legal advice regarding this.

What is happening re DS? Are the police taking matters further? If so, he needs separate legal advice too

[shinyblackgrape]

Separately, why can't your daughter be questioned re what has allegedly happened or not? Further, even though the SW up is on annual leave, someone presumably will be covering her workload even in a half arsed fashion so there should be someone for you/ your lawyer to speak to.

[Ladymuck]

You have rights, but not the right for a professional to question your daughter to get to the bottom of an alleged incident. Has an order been made to remove your dd from your charge? It sounds as if your ex now has your dd living with him until the sw comes back. What are the usual access arrangements and how have these been agreed?

[Whitecherry]

So you are trying to ascertain if something has happened to her.... Has it? Or not?

And who has done it..

[Whitecherry]

Have you got a s

[Whitecherry]

Solicitor!! Sorry posted too soon

[IneedAsockamnesty]

did your solisiter not tell you that you also have pr and can get a order to have dc returned.

[cheesesarnie]

surely if his new partner was your support worker (whilst he was in relationship with you?) theyre breaking all sorts of things just by being together, never mind the rest?

so you don'y believe whatever happened to your dd? or you don't believe that your ds did it?

[smiles007]

Wow, thanks for so many responses! Lots of questions, and have been so alone in this so far.
For 4 years, my daughter has lived with me, going to her dad's Thursday night one week and being returned on Saturday morning, then the following week, going thursday night till Sunday up until she started school, when he was allowed to take her on monday morning.
I do have a partner who i have been with now for 3 years but we do not live together. He works nightshift from 9pm - 6pm and generally returns to his house to sleep other than on a monday morning as that's then his day off, along with tuesday and wed morn. He has been very supportive but is at a loss himself as to how my ex and his new partner have done this, but more upset that my son has been treated as guilty and no support whatsoever was quick in coming.
My son was interviewed accordingly and denied everything, but the officer in charge, said to me, he has denied everything, which we expected. Meaning they still feel he is guilty. They are not taking it any further.
However Social Services do not take the same stance, they say that statistics and probability tell them that it is more likely to have happened than not!
Social worker told us that her dad has pr and as chosen to keep her, and he has the right to do this. Because she was going on 10 day leave, she did not have the time to investigate, and no, we did not hear from anyone.
I have been absolutely beside myself with mixed emotions and tried to get some advice. Did go to my solicitor, only to be told that it would be best at this stage to listen to Social services and do as requested during this interim period. The only thing she pulled my ex up on, was my contact with my daughter, as at this time, he had only let me see her at a childrens centre for 2 hours under supervision. Then at a later date, at a local playground for 1.5 hours on my own, but that was something i had to fight for, due to him saying i could have an hour, but with him present.
My concern is, that his partner was someone a few years ago, i trusted and thought had got a good relationship going. I told her many things, even about my relationship at that time with my ex, her now partner.
I would find it impossible to go into all the details regarding my son and the support i have tried to get for him and me over the years, but none of it has been around this subject. It is a clash of personalities between us, for lots of reasons and i still think he is on the autistic spectrum. He has a lot of ocd type issues and i don not believe he has done what they are saying he has.
I finally broke down last week, for several days, as this has been going on now for 5 weeks, and sadly i cried in front of both my children. I have tried talking to my daughter, rightly or wrongly, but explaining that she was very loved and was not in any trouble, and finally got to the question regarding the supposed said incident, and she said, she has never said such a thing to his partner. My daughter is quite a strong character and does not take any rubbish from anyone, so i do doubt that anything has happened.
So how do i get the right support now to have her dad and his partner investigated? I have expressed my concerns to the social worker, but she thinks it's all a bit, far fetched.
It would be nice to know, if anything did happen, and if it did, who is doing it? I know all my children really well and i can tell when they are lying or telling stories, and i believe my son, and this was not done, in the way that they are saying, that i have got trouble as a mum thinking the impossible, because believe me, i have been through lots of problems over the years and i do have a habit of dissecting everything.

[yellowkite]

What is your son alleged to have done?

I think the fact that your ex, a playerworker and his new girlfriend, a family support worker are going out even though she was your support worker very unprofessional is that even allowed?

Legally you could get a residency order ut under the circumstances it sounds as though there's a lot more to it, have social services advised you to leave dd with her dad?

[WorraLiberty]

It really does depend on what your DS is supposed to have done.

I have to say though, it's not beyond the realms of impossibility for a 4yr old to deny saying something when faced with her Mother in tears.

If something awful has happened to her, please listen to her and try to stay strong infront of her

[Birdsgottafly]

I would imagine from a safeguarding POV, if it is believed that this incident has taken place, but you are seen in denial about it, your ability to keep your DD safe, may be questioned.

Has your DD been put on any sort of 'plan'.

They are right that it would be very damaging to your DD to be questioned again.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

im guessing the allergation is sexual or physical abuse. if it is you seriously seriously need to get proper legal advice and remember you instruct them they dont instruct you

you need to ask them to find out exactly why your ex gets to keep her as you have pr as well that means you can keep her as well so unless social services can say exactly why you cant then your solisiter needs to address this.
as from your post it sounds like dad has just decided to keep her and NOT that ss have told him to.

take a friend with you to help you ask the questions and remember the answers.

[smiles007]

It is all complicated and having never been through it all before, struggling to understand. SW said it was best for daughter to stay with dad till she could work with us, but took 10 days hols. No one was put in her place.
I am not doing what they suggested, which is being unable to think the unthinkable. I know my children, and yes they both wind each other up just like my brother and i did as kids.
Yes it was apparently sexual, in that, my daughter is meant to have said something like he licked her bits? She suffers from vulverginitus and has done since birth, so has been under hospital consultant for a long time.
The protection officer did also say that my daughter said it only happened once.
My ex has only just recently moved in with this women and the work she done with us was some years ago, but she is still someone who as a family we learned to trust and confide in.
I have been to a solicitor and she has said, i'm doing the right things at this time, by working with the professionals involved until the risk report is done.
We have had no help or support at all, and if my son really isn't guilty, this is one hell of a smear on him, and with his anxiety levels being what they are, how do they think it may effect him in the future.
All i have done since this began 5 weeks ago is tell my children i love them. That i don't always like some of their behaviour but will always love them.
I think i have stayed amazingly strong, considering i feel totally powerless to do or say anything for fear it will be taken the wrong way.
I had letter today from his solicitor, which now makes me believe even more this is about other things, because the lies on it, are so silly. Saying now that i am making my daughter ill, because i don't feed her correctly. Apparently i make her live on porridge and choc ices!!!

Thanks everyone for your responses. I just have had no idea of who to turn too for sound advice and keep within the law.

Things like this just rip families apart. I don't believe i or my family deserve any of this, and i still believe 100% that my ex and his new partner have used info to put words into my daughters mouth or just completely misconstrued what she actually said.

[WorraLiberty]

That's a terrible situation to be in.

But why would a 4yr old make up a story like that?

"I know all my children really well and i can tell when they are lying or telling stories, and i believe my son, and this was not done, in the way that they are saying, that i have got trouble as a mum thinking the impossible, because believe me, i have been through lots of problems over the years and i do have a habit of dissecting everything"

So you're sure she lied?

[IneedAsockamnesty]

worra she is saying that the ex's partner has lied and her daughter has effectivly been groomed to say she did.

its rather comon practise when custody desputes start

[McHappyPants2012]

What is worrying me is why don't you belive your 4 year old. Where would a 4 year old get the idea to lie about her brother licking her bits.

[WorraLiberty]

That's what I mean - the OP is sure her DD lied.

It's an awful situation and I hope it can be resolved one way or another for you all.

[WorraLiberty]

My reply was to Sock

McHappy I suppose it's not beyond the realms of impossibility for her Dad to have 'groomed' her into saying it, but I would have thought the interviewer might have spotted that.

Maybe not - who knows?

The OP says she's a head strong little girl who doesn't take any shit from anyone so that part is confusing me.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

big difference between saying my dd has lied and said "my brother licked my bits" and the ex's partner has said she said it

one is a child lying the other is an adult lying.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

if ofcourse nothing has happened i ment to add that.

for what its worth especially with very young children grooming is very hard to detect

[WorraLiberty]

But the DD herself was questioned

I assumed by a professional?

[Whitecherry]

Awful situation op, you have my sympathy

[McHappyPants2012]

If it is found out the adults are lying i hope they wouldn't be able to keep there jobs especially as they 1 is a playworker and the other a support worker.

[annielouisa]

I really feel for you it is a truly horrible situation for you to be in. I am concerned though that your daughter may love you so much that she will tell you what you want to hear to please you as she already knows how upset you are. Young children may tell the truth but be feeling if the truth causes upset to people they love they will retract what they have said to keep their loved ones happy.

I have spent 15 years trying to undo a terrible wrong done to my DSD4 because her DM made her retract an abuse admission because she didn't want hurt her DM feelings.

I know your desperately upset and love both your children but am very unsure that anyone re-questioning a young child will get at the truth when she is confused and made to feel she has done something wrong.