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Parking Enforcement Notice received for stopping for 10 seconds at Luton Airport(43 Posts)
I have searched for parking fine posts and I understand that if you receive a parking fine from a private company (in this case APCOA at Luton Airport) it is not enforceable. I just want to check though!!
My DH had to pick up my DB from Luton airport. He paid a pound to wait in the 15 min waiting area but as DB had still not arrived after 13 mins he exited the drop off/pick up area and was going to drive around and enter again for another 15 minutes (cheaper to pay £2 than go to short term car park). Anyway as he drove out, my DB appeared (jumped out in front of DH's car to stop him!) and DB threw his luggage in the boot and hopped in. DH stopped for about 10 seconds. Apparently you are not allowed to stop on the roads and there are notices but you can't read all the details if you are not allowed to stop !
DH has received a parking enforcement notice, which he ignored as we had read the advice, and then a debt collectors letter saying he owes £131 now, which for stopping for a few seconds seems a trifle excessive! The debt collectors now keep phoning daily but DH is never in as he is at work (and they don't have his mobile no). As I take the calls, they just say it is a personal call and ask me to leave a message for DH to call them, which he hasn't so far.
Do you think he should give them a ring? What should he say?
Or should he write to them?
Any help is much appreciated. I know the advice is to ignore all the letters but I am worried that DH will be the one they decide to take to court.
This "notice" is an invoice, not a fine. You should ignore it. To take action against your DH they would have to prove that he was driving the car. In the unlikely event that they did sue and even more unlikely event that they won, they would only be awarded damages for any loss they suffered as a result of your DH's actions, which would be much less than the £131 they are claiming.
If they keep phoning daily tell them you will report them to the police for harrassment unless the calls cease.
Just check in the notice of "fine" whether they refer to any bye-laws. I assume not, in which case (as in all such cases) ignore them as prh says.
moneysavingexpert on APCOA at Luton
you can safely ignore
don't speak to them on the phone - when you know it's them just mute your phone & wait until they go away. after a while the number of calls dwindles & eventually they give up (my DD had a couple of parking "fines" which were handled by Graham White/Roxburghe. Bastards)
I had a day off work last week and got a call at home from Messers G White re an alleged unpaid penalty notice. I ask the chap to hold the line for a moment, gently tapped the handset against the phone so it made a clicking noise at his end, and then said please be aware I am now recording this conversation. Guess what
. he hung up without saying another word! It just goes to prove they tread a fine line between debt collection and extortion (allegedly!!!).
from MSE again.
you could try that, coconut
Thanks everyone - that is reassuring.. The debt collectors said "we are fully aware of anecdotal information being presented via the Internet and on various websites and you may well feel this guidance is worth following. We strongly urge you to seek independent legal advice rather than to rely on these opinions, and we would respectfully suggest that you refer to the Civil Procedures Rules part 31 and more specifically parts 31.16 and 31.17"
I looked at these rules but have no idea what they are about - too much legal jargon for me to understand!
Does anyone know what they refer to??
That is a great idea ponders! Maye even genuinely record the calls too using a mobile next to the phone?
OP - Google is a great resource for stuff like that.
a different thread from MSE
'Seems like Roxburghe have changed their "letter". Check the last paragraph "We are fully aware of anecdotal information being presented via the internet and on various websites and you may well feel this guidance is worth following. We strongly urge you to seek independent legal advice rather than rely on these opinions, and would respectively suggest that you refer to the Civil Procedure Rules part 31 and more specifically parts 31.16 and 31.17"
So, looks like we are being advised to check the internet for advice?'
'Except they forget to add that "Civil Procedure Rules part 31* *and more specifically parts 31.16 and 31.17" does not apply to the Small-Claims track. How very remiss of them!'
'There's absolutely no way they "forgot" , they are 100% deliberately misleading people in the hope of conning them into providing information that they are not obliged to'
Honestly, coconut, if you google Luton Airport APCOA there are pages of links
also google Graham White & Roxburghe
they do not go to court - even with parking tickets, apparently, the most they would get even if they did bother would be the amount of the original "fine", not any of their "costs", so they don't.
a post from Aug 2011 on the thread I just linked to:
'I drove my husband's car to Luton Airport a month ago to drop my brother off. I stopped at a red traffic light on roundabout and my bro decided to jump out as he was in a hurry to check in. I then drove on. I received a penalty notice accusing me of dropping off in an unauthorised area and had the usual pay £40 now or £80 in a few weeks or we'll use a debt collection agency to recover monies. I wrote to them saying that I had no control over my passenger's action and that I had not stopped to drop him off. I stopped at a red light as I was obliged to do. Should I ignore this? My husband is nervous as it is his car reg they have. His instinct is to pay it and forget it. I don't want to pay them. It's a rip off. Should I write to them and tell them I have no intention of paying or should I just let it lie? '
'Simply ignore their silly letters. They have not got a hope in hell of ever enforcing such a stupid contravention.
They are simply trying to mimic official road regulations on private land! You have advised them of the circumstances, let them waste their time sending silly letters. Which will ultimately come to nought!! '
She was stopped at a red light, FFS!!! Just shows how pathetic they are, really.
CPR Rule 31 is about disclosure so they are talking about what they termed: "anecdotal information being presented via the Internet and on various websites "
Sounds as though they are trying to scare you by suggesting you will need to instruct solicitors to deal with any claim so that would cost you even more money!
& finally (honest!) this summary of what they're about
They are all just begging letters, which are basically saying:
"Hi there Mr or Mrs X, we know we have no authority to fine you, as only a court can issue fines, so we are sending you an invoice, which we really hope you will be daft enough to pay.
We'll keep sending letters for a few weeks, possibly even a few months, at our expense, probably totalling a couple of pounds. They'll even get more threatening, we'll say we are sending debt collectors round and we are going to take you to court, but that would cost us even more money than we have already lost by writing to you, so we wont.
PLEASE pay us, as if you don't, more and more people wont pay us, and then we'll be sending letters out for no reason at all and you wouldn't want us to go out of business would you?
Because you have already engaged with them they will persist initially (this happened with my DD before I intervened) but the number of calls/letters will dwindle & they will give up eventually AS LONG AS YOU STOP ENGAGING FROM NOW ON.
The disclosure part is just about confirming to them who was driving.
but IMO it's wrong that they have access to DVLC records in the first place, to find out where to send the initial demand, when no law has been broken
Part 31 is all about disclosure of documents. 31.16 and 31.17 set out the rules that apply if they ask the courts to make you disclose any documents. However, any claim by ACPOA would go through the small claims track where part 31 does not apply so it is completely irrelevant. It has no bearing at all on whether or not they can enforce their "fine". As Ponders says, this appears to be a deliberate attempt to mislead people. Even more reason not to pay.
By the way, I checked and your DH doesn't seem to have broken any of Luton Airport's bye-laws unless he was riding a horse at the time!
Thanks. - I will look at the threads. Graham white solicitors letter received today threatening legal action in the county court. We will continue to ignore letters then but it is hard to ignore calls as they just leave messages for dh all the time. Should we not write back to say that dh is disputing parlaying enforcement notice and invite them to take us to court?
no, don't respond at all, not to letters or calls!!! (keep the letters though - they follow a set circular pattern, it's quite entertaining to compare them)
when they ring & ask for him
ask who's speaking
say 'just a moment'
mute the phone
don't engage. they will hang up after a while & gradually will call less & less.
or, if you have caller display, they will probably use this number
so if that comes up, just don't answer.
YES that's the number!!! But don't have caller display. They seem to call around the same time (about 4.45 pm) so yesterday I let the phone go to ansafone and when I did 1471, it was that number. But they didn't leave a message.
It's just a bit scary as we have never been in such a situation before!
And prh47bridge - He wasn't riding a horse so guess he is ok then!!
yes, it is scary at first - the letters are very convincing
but after a while, & especially when you realise how many other people are in the same boat, you can relax about it &
laugh at ignore their efforts
Agree with Ponders. Don't engage with them at all. That will only encourage them. If you ignore them they will go away.
I presume the debt collector is Roxburghe. Anything you receive from Graham White of West Byfleet is likely to be from Roxburghe, not the solicitors. Graham White has just one solicitor who is now well into his 70s.
Yes, the debt collector is Roxburghe And then Michael Sobells letter, solicitor (graham white - solicitors headed paper.
But I will ignore them all now and be strong - thank you!!!!!
Ignore 'em and they'll get bored and go and find someone else to bully. The sad thing is most people will just pay up
I'm currently ignoring similar letters, though wasn't at Luton airport so a different company.
They haven't rung me yet. Where do they get your number from? I'm ex directory so if they find my number I won't be happy.
I assume they get name & address from DVLC & then look it up in the phone book, so if you're ex-directory you may not get calls, Beaver - in fact I'd be very interested to hear about it if you do
This lot aren't exclusive to Luton Airport though. What's your hassling company called?
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