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giving adress details when going abroad with kids

(26 Posts)
trolls4us Sun 23-Sep-12 11:47:48

Does anyone know if you have to give private address details where you will be going with your children on holiday abroad down to last detail etc house number and street could you get away with just giving street name and not house number or could a PSO order be brought against you if you do not give actual house number where you will be staying when asked directly by ex? even if you provide street name

STIDW Sun 23-Sep-12 15:49:50

It's not unreasonable for a parent to know where their children are staying overnight. Why do you not want to give the information?

babybarrister Sun 23-Sep-12 18:30:32

Yes a PSO could be brought and in such circumstances where one parent was refusing to provide proper details I imagine that the PSO would not be requesting the full details but for an order preventing to overseas travel .....! I certainly would be advising that!

izzyizin Mon 24-Sep-12 02:04:08

Can you explain a little more about the holiday? Is a package deal to a hotel or flights/accomodation or you planning to stay with friends/rent a villa?

Is your reluctance to reveal the address due to fear that your ex may turn up unexpectedly while you are on holiday?

trolls4us Mon 24-Sep-12 13:40:44

yes well my reluctance to provide actual house number (its a friends address) is because my ex is an unreasonable person and in a gang. He has a lengthy criminal record and I am conscious to protect people that are my friends from harm as they have been threatened by him in the past. Yes he may certainly target this person if i provide house number sad that is why i am trying to see if a PSO would be granted if i left out house number but provided actual street name . Is there any other way round it?

trolls4us Mon 24-Sep-12 13:58:51

thankyou 4 your help i have just checked it out legit and interestingly there is no legal obligation or outline a to the level or amount of detail you provide it is enough to just give telephone number and area then a PSO would not be granted smile

trolls4us Mon 24-Sep-12 17:39:04

and the PSO could only be brought against you if they can give enough proof that you are a flight risk as long as you provide general details but must provide emergency telephone number but street name and house number is not essential or illegal

aokay Mon 24-Sep-12 23:21:40

sorry to be thick but what is a PSO ? - not just being nosey - have issues with being informed of whereabouts of my kids on holidays etc.

izzyizin Tue 25-Sep-12 02:22:24

PSO = Prohibited Steps Order

izzyizin Tue 25-Sep-12 04:10:47

It's not unreasonable for holidays abroad to take the form of flying to an airport in x country, hiring a car, and setting out on a tour in which accomodation is sought/booked as and when before returning home, in some cases, via an airport some hundreds of miles away from the point of arrival.

Courts are generally satisfied with a signed statement to the effect that the parent/guardian/carer intends to take the dc on holiday to x country/county on or around a given date and undertakes to return them to the UK/their usual home address on or by a given date. The fact that a phone number for direct contact with the parent/guardian/carer can be provided was something of a bonus and has only become expected since the advent of mobile phones.

Unless it is considered that the parent/guardian/carer represents a flight risk, and/or there is demonstrable concern that the dc may come to harm while in their care, IMO, it is unlikely that a Court would prohibit UK/overseas travel for holiday purposes or require any more detailed information other than the above.

In your specific case, trolls, I would suggest that you take prohibitive steps to ensure that your ex is not so well informed as to be able to turn up at either your departure or arrival points on your dates of travel or interfere in any way with the enjoyment of your holiday.

trolls4us Tue 25-Sep-12 09:44:09

thanks izzy thats really good to know should make going on holiday a lot easier thanks

STIDW Tue 25-Sep-12 17:20:26

I think the point is being missed. Under s1 Child Abduction Act 1984 it is a criminal offence to take children abroad without the consent from all those with Parental Responsibility for a child. The exception would be if there is a residence order in your favour. If you don't provide the address in full and your ex doesn't consent he could apply for a PSO. Whether he gets one or not is another matter, but last minute court proceedings before you go on holiday or even worse being stopped leaving the country or a a visit from the authorities when you you are a way could ruin your holiday.

For that reason if there is no residence order in your favour and your ex doesn't agree to the children you would be well advised to apply to court yourself for a Specific Issue Order. If there is evidence of a risk of violence then a court isn't going to expect you to disclose the exact address.

babybarrister Tue 25-Sep-12 18:02:42

Totally agree STIDW - much better explained than my post!!

MsIngaFewmarbles Tue 25-Sep-12 18:06:25

Could you lodge the address with a solicitor or the court instead of your ex? Sorry no idea really.

babybarrister Tue 25-Sep-12 19:38:00

that is a very good idea and would form a part of the application for a specific issue order

MsIngaFewmarbles Tue 25-Sep-12 19:45:05

Ooh get me grin

trolls4us Tue 25-Sep-12 22:12:33

i have checked it out legally and sorry guys but
you do not have to provide address deatils in full ...UNLESS there is a history of harm to the child from mother or you can prove that the mother is a flight risk you only have to provide the level of detail you think ex should know ...as long as you inform ex of where you are going and when and provide tel number then no court in land will bring specific issues or pSO or any order for that matter against the mother

trolls4us Tue 25-Sep-12 22:15:15

and who cares if they apply for PSO they would only be wasting their own money that they could put towards other more urgent things like CSA, rent or xmas pressies smile SIMPLES

Meglet Tue 25-Sep-12 22:16:43

sorry mini-hijack, but STIDW how can an absent parent give permission to take a child out of the country? My X has parental responsibility but we haven't seen him in 3yrs and will hopefully never see him again. Surely this cannot stop me taking the children abroad when they are older? confused

trolls4us Tue 25-Sep-12 22:22:12

meglet the court should give you a residence order on those grounds alone then you can go to honolulu if you like and not have to even think twice sbout it smile they can make an order in his abscence which should be easy if he has vanished and you cant locate him and the courts are so rubbish with their paperwork they wont be able to either or prob even bother

Meglet Tue 25-Sep-12 22:32:17

hmm, I would love a residence order. Sadly as he still pays through the CSA I don't think they would allow it . I have no idea where he is though, and certainly would never try and locate him as he's too abusive.

Honolulu - I wish!

prh47bridge Tue 25-Sep-12 23:02:00

trolls4us - Yes, your ex may be wasting his own money if he applies for a PSO. However, if he leaves it to the last minute it would at best be thoroughly inconvenient for you and you may be prevented from going on holiday until the case is resolved, so he would have achieved his objective even if he didn't get the PSO. Worse, if you go without his permission he could report you to the police for child abduction which could ruin your holiday. Far better to get a Specific Issue Order as STIDW suggests. That way there is no risk at all.

Meglet - Why do you think the fact he pays maintenance would stop you getting a residence order?

It is a defence against a charge of child abduction to show you took all reasonable steps to communicate with your ex but were unable to do so. However, I would recommend getting your legal ducks in a row by getting an appropriate order in place before going abroad.

Meglet Tue 25-Sep-12 23:07:10

prh47bridge because they could probably trace him via the CSA (I guess!). And if he got wind of me doing anything it would all flare up again. I'm that scared of winding him up I'm trying to lie low, even though I am desperate to formalise a few things to keep us safe. I don't want to rock the boat. I have made inquiries about changing the dc's names and bank accounts though, but I'm trying to build a case and get the wodge of paperwork, crime ref numbers together. (all for another thread).

trolls4us Sat 29-Sep-12 07:58:13

the money he pays is irrelevant to the court as its judged more on who is the main carer and who spends the most time parenting and taking part in his care CSA is not takem into account when making residency order

trolls4us Sat 29-Sep-12 08:01:35

there is no point getting specific issues untill you have tried every other avenue like getting permission from ex to travel the courts would look badly upon this ....ill get that order though if he is diificult or tries to ruin holiday by leaving it till last minute or refusing THANKS!

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