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Can xh really prevent me from taking the dc's to France?

(12 Posts)
Readyisknitting Fri 27-May-11 13:16:45

Background is that I left xh 2 years ago because he was abusive, although there was never a finding of fact to prove the abuse happened.

I now have a new partner, who has been entering our lives gradually over the last year. We are due to go on holiday to France for 2 weeks in the summer, myself, my 3 dcs, dp, dp's dad, and dp's ds (dbs)

Xh has now said through his solicitor that he does not give permission for the children to go. Can he do this and prevent us from going?

Collaborate Fri 27-May-11 13:53:30

Yes. You need to apply to the court for an order under s8 of the children act prohibiting him from preventing you going to France for the holiday. If you get a residence order you'll not need his permission to take the kids abroad for up to a month.

Readyisknitting Fri 27-May-11 14:15:47

Thank you. Will get my sol to do both on Tues. Have given a deadline of 4pm tues before applying to court.

gillybean2 Sun 29-May-11 16:33:03

On what grounds is he refusing? Is your NP french and he thinks you are planning to move to France permanently perhaps?

He can refuse permission if he has PR (which as you were married he will have). But unless he has good grounds too, a court will order it without too much hassle.

If you have a residency order in your favour then you can take the dc abroad for up to 28 days without needing his permission. You would only have residency if you had been to court previously as residency isn't specified unless you go to court and ask for it to be.

Readyisknitting Mon 30-May-11 15:13:02

He has not specified a reason, but dp is more english than xh! (xh is welsh). I plan to return to court and get a residence order to prevent this occurring again, as it would appear ( given xh's nature) that he has said no from spite. Can prove the holiday is only 2 weeks, this is the infuriating thing.

He has previously made veiled accusations, but never taken them further, that dp is bathing the dds, if you read between the lines! But when challenged to take his concerns further he hasn't.

Readyisknitting Tue 31-May-11 16:11:32

Bugger, have heard back, and he is still refusing consent. Bastard. So off I will be to court.

Am planning to move in with dp, can you think of any other loopholes I need to close?

Mishtu Thu 02-Jun-11 23:13:50

hi- I have been reading a few posts here regards to application to remove child from jurisdiction and I thought this could be a useful forum for me if anu of you have been in similar circumstances..
I have applied to the courts for an application to remove my daughter permanently to India as thats where i come from and so does my ex. we have been here for the past 8 years, ex contesting vehemently. he is trying all the tricks of the trade to keep her behind, though my daughter wants to go back she is 10.Both sides of the family are in that country and that is where she was born as well.recently had a cafcass report where the reporter is sitting on the fence saying neither yes nor no to us going back. They have recognised the fact that i am the primary carer but have literally taken what my daughter has said about her wishes and feelings. She has said that she definitely wants to return back but wants to complte yr 6..which means another 12 months wait,,this has already gone up to one year and by suggesting that i stay back for another year will prove to be excruciating for I am lonely and have absolutely no family here..i have a good solcitor who said that they will challenge this report as its wishy washy..but i fear that my ex will try to delay this as much as possible so that he can brainwash my d ..can someone adv please

babybarrister Fri 03-Jun-11 10:26:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Takeresponsibility Sun 05-Jun-11 10:26:07


I think your daughter is telling you what you want to hear, she knows it will make you happy to go back, and in general terms she probably has had some good holidays with family in India and likes the idea in general but as a pre teen/teenage girl she wants to stay with her friends just as much as you want to return to your friends and family.

This is not a legal dilemma this is a general parenting issue who's needs come first yours or your daughters?

TerraBella Sun 05-Jun-11 21:01:32

Dear ReadyisKnitting

I enter the fray with trepedation, knowing there are very experienced family lawyers in the wings... however, i agree with baby barrister, ex is being very silly. If there are genuinely no "running away " type concerns then the court may grant you a specific issue order saying you may go to France but so long as you provide ticket and address details for the return; however, a full on Residence Order may be overkill if the kids normally live with you.

I believe that the situation is that both parents with Parental Responsibilty must consent before children are removed from the Jurisdiction or an offence is committed. ie it is a criminal offence ( frisson of fear as family lawyers try to apply themselves to criminal law). for this reason, family lawyers tend to advise asking for permission where the situation is fraught. However, court application to tootle off on hols to France is under the Children Act ( so family law and phew, i am back in my comfort zone) and your ex would be a dopey ninny to say "no" if a) you intend to return,and b) you are not going in school time and c) this does not interfere with his contact

perhaps a stiff letter from your Solicitor threatening Court proceedings and a claim for costs (rarely granted in my experience so you would be bluffing) would deter his recalcitrant attitude and dare i say it... consider mediation to find out what his beef really is?...

STIDW Sun 05-Jun-11 21:56:58

Strictly speaking although it is a criminal offence to take the children abroad without consent from all those with PR for a child it isn't an offence if consent is unreasonably withheld for a couple of weeks holidays once or twice a year.

The reason to apply for permission from the courts is to avoid the hassle of court proceedings if the other parent applies to court at the last minute to prevent the holiday or disruption to the holiday while the authorities investigate allegations of abduction. Neither application is likely to be successful unless there is evidence that the holiday has been organised to frustrate contact but the other parent has the right to a fair hearing.

Readyisknitting Mon 06-Jun-11 10:34:44

Thank you for the info...

Ex is abusive, mediation is not an option as I fled after his dv escalated and dd1 was hurt. Contact has since changed since the holiday was booked, we booked it last sept. Now it will interfere with 2 contact dates, but I have already offered alternatives for both these, and a date at the beginning of July where the older two are taking part in a parade and are therefore unavailable.

Xh is definitely doing this out of sheer bloody minded spite. However because he is a idle tosser on jobseekers he can be as obstructive as he likes as he does not have to pay his sol fees. I believe that while a full RO is overkill, it's necessary to avoid this every year.

We are due to go on the 29th Jul, we should have sent off the payment for the rest of the holiday on fri, however dp is panicking slightly as this is his fathers money paying for it and we're still waiting for a court date. My sol reckons 2-3 weeks but I don't know if that is until I hear what the date is or the date will be in 2-3 weeks., We've already put down £1000 in deposit and eurotunnel fares and he now is so disillusioned with the court system we just don't know whether to pay the remainder and risk not being able to go, or just cancel and lose what we've already paid out.

The kids are guttedsad

So wise people, how long do you think it will be to hear what the date will be and how long do you all think I will have to wait to get before a judge? (such a waste of public funds) Really anxious, need to contact the people tonight, what do I say to them?

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