residency orders

[Gster]

How are these organized ? Is the NRP made aware of the process whilst it's applied for or is it just a surprise after it's been finalized ?

[mumblechum1]

In the vast majority of cases, there are no orders, the court only gets involved if there's a dispute and one party makes an application for residence (or contact etc) under the Children Act 1989.

In those cases where there is a dispute, it would normally be the NRP who applies for residence, by definition.

Many years ago, the court made, almost automatically on Decree Nisi, an order for Custody to mum, Access to dad. These days all they will say at that stage is that the court is satisfied with the arrangements as set out in the Statement of Arrangements for Children (S.41 Order).

[prh47bridge]

Agree with Mumblechum1. I would add that you will not get a residence order without the NRP's awareness.

[Gster]

Thanks. My ex I believe, will be applying for one behind my back. There is no reason for it other that my XP's fury at having to ask my permission to take DD out of the country which I've made clear is fine as long as I know where they are staying and coming back.

[mumblechum1]

He can't do it behind your back. When he issues his application thecourt sends him a sealed copy and he then has to post it to you and complete a statement of service form. If you don't turn up at the appointment he won't simply get a residence order, the court will want to know whether you've been served and if he's acting in person is likely to suspect that he hasn't served you properly.

The court is unlikely to grant a residence order to him when your DD has been living you unless there's a very good reason to change the status quo.

[Gster]

My XP is the mother and DD lives with her already, I've no problem with this. Like I say I think the XP is applying for a residency order purely in order to take DD out of the country without my knowledge.

But thanks, that's all very helpful.

[Collaborate]

If the dispute is about whether he can take the child abroad on a holiday then he'll have to apply for a contact order and ask within that that he be granted permission to remove the child from the jurisdiction for the purpose of the holiday. Your stance seems reasonable enough.

[prh47bridge]

Collaborate's advice is based on the assumption that you are the mother and XP is the NRP (obviously). However, I agree that your stance is reasonable. It is unlikely that the courts will give the mother a residence order simply so that she can avoid having to get your agreement to take your daughter out of the country.

[cestlavielife]

in a way it is good if she applyin g for a residence order as it means you will get chance to give your views and state what kind of contact you looking for.
i applied for residence order when i moved with DC from family home - as a way to formalise residence and contact .
exP as the NRP was first writte to with "intent to file at court" so he hadtwo weeks to repsond, agree to medaition first.
he refused so the applicaition was filed at court.

then he was served papers, given the date of the hearing and was able to preapre his statement and views. (other things happened which meant CAFCASS got involved - but this might not be necessary in your case)

the final residence order (it took more than a year and about four hearings - but there were welfare issues) also sets out contact schedule .

so in short, yes you will be given every opportunity to present your case and use the opportunity to present reasonable contact schedule and any specifics such as leaving the country for holidays etc

[MadameDefarge]

Can I ask a quick question? Can a parent without PR apply for a residency order?

[cestlavielife]

yes - if granted then it automatically gives PR

[MadameDefarge]

Ok. How likely is it that a parent who has no PR but informal residency (agreed for good of child in current circumstances) would get full residency?

Ds in a great school near ExP, that will change in Sept, as has got into great school for secondary near me. I want to do 50/50 or as near as dammit with ExP, he wants me to have weekday residency. Is in a snit because ds got into school near me rather than near him. I know he wants to have ds . would any judge give residency based on this? I reiterate, I would, for ds, prefer 50/50, but in my heart of hearts, obviously want him back all the time.But I think 50/50 is best for ds.

Slightly strange position, but am scared ExP will go to court to get residency based on last two years, rather than ds future. Background is I had ds for 6 years with no CM at all, and have always accomodated ExP in contact.

[STIDW]

It's the reality of the situation rather than PR that determines what happens.

I don't quite understand why your ex would apply for sole residence if he wants you to have weekday residence. Do you mean he just wants all the quality time at weekends?

[MadameDefarge]

As far as I understand it, he thinks that a child should be with the parent who lives closest to the childs school. While I think a secondary school child, who already splits time between parents, should continue to do so.

I think he has been working towards the the idea of keeping on having ds for the school week, as he is planning to buy a bigger place. He is very angry that ds got into school near me, rather than the one near him. He seems to think I have jigged the application process, to ensure my choice rather than his. Though we discussed it beforehand But I had to apply from my address as I have PR, and he thinks I should have applied from his to ensure ds got into the school near him. I think. Its hard to understand him really.

He says he does not want to do the travelling in the morning with him on the bus, as it is "too far and too tiring" even though I do it two days a week as it is.

[Collaborate]

Who is your son living with at the moment?

A shared residence order wouldn't necessarily mean a 50/50 split of time. You'd also need some weekend time with him.

How far does your ex live from the new school?

[MadameDefarge]

ExP lives a 30 min bus ride away

[MadameDefarge]

Oh, he is living mainly with his dad at the moment, as ExP lives near the school we moved him to a couple of years ago. And I didn't feel ds could cope with bus journey every day then, and ds wanted to try living with dad.

[StiffyByng]

Just to go back to the OP briefly, my husband's residence order for his children stated that he could take them out of the country for up to a month without permission from his ex, and she, as the NRP, needed his permission to take them at all. The original proposition was for anything above a fortnight but he already had a holiday booked that would have been 15 nights including travel, and she told the judge she would refuse permission, so the judge changed it to a month in exasperation!

[teddies]

If there is no residence order or contact order in place, (and no contact for at least 4 months) but the NRP has PR, can the RP take the child out of the country on holiday without asking permission of the NRP? and if the RP does ask permission and it is refused for no reason other than bloody awkwardness, does the RP have to get a court order before being able to take the child out of the country, or what?

[prh47bridge]

In the absence of a residence order you need the permission of everyone with PR before taking the child out of the country, even for a holiday. If you ask the NRP and the NRP unreasonably refuses to consent you are not committing an offence if you ignore that refusal. However, the safest course would be to get a Single Issue Order to allow you to take the child abroad.

I'm a bit by StiffyByng's post. Under the Child Abduction Act 1984, once you have a residence order you can take your child out of the country for up to a month without needing permission. On the other hand the NRP always needs the RP's permission. Was this a long time ago?

[StiffyByng]

No, only a couple of years ago. The best explanation is that my husband misunderstood what was going on as he clearly has the standard arrangement in the RO. It could well be that it was his ex who tried to stipulate a fortnight and the judge, obviously-given what you say, refused the request. For obvious reasons, I got it all second-hand and it was all at the end of a very stressful three days! We had many, many demands for unreasonable restrictions/actions so
it would fit that pattern.

[teddies]

Thanks prh47bridge
Is a single issue order the same kind of thing as a specific issue order?
If the RP got to the airport having asked for permission but been denied it unreasonably by NRP, would the immigration people have something to say? Potentially NRP could put "stop" on child's passport and then RP could be arrested - not good.

[Collaborate]

That is the risk if permission isn't obtained. Also query what you need for the destination country.

[prh47bridge]

I looked at that post and thought something was wrong with it but I couldn't figure it out. Must be old age creeping up on me. Yes, I did mean a specific issue order. And the risk that you might be stopped at the airport is one of the reasons an SIO is the safest course.

[FullySwindonian]

Bumping a zombie for current legislation updates please.

[WanderingAway]

I know this is a zombie thread but just wanted to ask a question.

My exh hasnt seen or been in contact with our 9yr old in over 2 years. I have no idea where he is. If i wanted to take my dc out of the country would i need his permission? Even though he isnt involved in her life.