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Can my Child's Father stop us moving to England from Ireland?

(18 Posts)
KMonaghan Sun 21-Nov-10 21:18:03

My Partner of 5 years and I recently split up after he was violent to me. We never lived together and we have a 3 year old son. I am 21 years old and have lived with my mother and sister my whole life as has my son. They recently decided to move back to England after living in Ireland for the Duration of my relationship with my Ex. He has never paid any money towards the upbringing of our child and has always been immature and selfish. The thing is I decided that with my mother and sister around and having no choice but to end my relationship after he was violent I will be left with no emotional support and my options are limited. I feel its best for myself and my son to go with my mum and sister but my ex is now taking me to court to stop me. I am willing to make the effort for him to see out son as often as possible. I am willing to travel one every 2 months if he also does so in effect he would see our son once a month. I'm just so scared the courts will decided I should not be allowed to leave

SixtyFootDoll Sun 21-Nov-10 21:20:53

Its up to the Courts to decide.
Hopefully they will be sympathetic.

RCToday Sun 21-Nov-10 21:26:36

If you can make a good case that having family support is better for and your DS

and you are willing to do at least 50% of the travelling, the courts could be on your side

One little whiff of trying to alienate your DS from his Father and you will be bound by court orders and summons for the next 15 years

Make sure you are playing fair

Good Luck

stripeywoollenhat Sun 21-Nov-10 21:38:56

is your ex on the birth cert? has he previously applied for parental responsibility? because if he isn't and hasn't (and you aren't or weren't married to him), there was a case here (ireland) last year where a mother left her violent partner with their children and moved to the uk and the father couldn't stop her because he hadn't bothered to get parental responsibility. but if there is a case already in motion i think it's highly unlikely that you can just leave. if he's only talking about court, though, maybe you can. talk to a solicitor before you do anything.

xstitchsurvivor Sun 21-Nov-10 21:55:39

Record absolutely everything down to the minute details. Don't listen to any solicitor who tells you you don't need the information.

KMonaghan Sun 21-Nov-10 22:23:58

Yes he is on the birth certificate and he is applying for custody, guardianship and access. His parents (My child's grandparents) are also applying for access. I have always been more then fair and let them see my son on days that suited them rather then myself because I just wanted to please everyone. When I told my sons father that I was moving he accepted this and said he understood after what had happened that what i was doing was right for me and my son. less then a week later i was presented with solicitors letters and a court date. This was all done behind my back.

Leslaki Mon 22-Nov-10 12:23:24

KMonoaghan I went through this this summer moving within the UK. It was horrendous but we got through it. I had ot prepare a case stating where the DC would be living, educated etc etc this was espcially useful. Keep records of everything - especially non payment of any maintenance as it doesn't show your ex in a good way! Also don't make any exact promises about what contact you will offer unless you have to. Keep stating you are willing to maintain contact with Skype etc and mutual travel. If he stops paying maintenance, you lose a job etc then if you are tied to travelling back to Ireland every 2 months you might not be able to afford it and he could be dragging you back into court every time you can't comply with the order (of course he will probably ignore his non payment of maintenance). Good luck - you can do it and be happy. My barrister (yes it got that extreme) stated in court that a court should only stop me moving if if could be proved that I was taking the children into danger - she said the move should be permitted unless there were extreme circumstances which would/could harm the DC. She also stated that as a Citizen of Europe, my human rights stated I had the legal right to reside in any member state unless I was taking the DC to live in a dangerous situation. The fact that you are going home and will be living with family (who your ds has lived with all his life) should help. Good luck and take care. xx

KMonaghan Mon 22-Nov-10 14:44:02

Thank you so much Leslaki, My solicitor has been absolutely useless and has not told me to prepare any information on the move and I am so glad I found this site. As I had my child at the age of 17 I had to leave school and moving back to England would give me more job opportunity's as well as Education opportunity's as well which I do not have in Ireland. My ex has never shouldered any of the practical responsibilities and I have given up hope I will ever see a penny from him. I just want to be able to make a better life for myself and my child with the support of my family. It makes me angry that My ex and his family can do this when they know how much I love my child who I have always put first, have cared for emotionally and financially his whole life and all through the pregnancy with no financial help from them, that they now want to stop us moving on after he was violent and his parents were verbally abusive. This is there own fault and I have put up with to much to be walked allover anymore when they show no respect towards the fact I am my little boys mother and what is best for him.

Rentatoast Wed 24-Nov-10 12:36:12

Hi,

If your user name is close to your real name, it will be easy for your H or ILs to google and find your threads, and maybe use what you have posted against you. They do sound like s**ts.

Maybe you should consider asking Mumsnet HQ to remove your threads, and start new ones with a new user name.

Good luck with everything an all, don't let the b**tards get you down!

JustaNickname Wed 24-Nov-10 15:57:22

Thanks Rentaoast, I''m pretty sure they won't be on here though. My ILs don't know how to use a computer and My ex wouldn't even think about things like this but I think I'll do that anyways to be on the safe side.

WestVirginia Wed 24-Nov-10 21:13:03

Where was your son born?

WestVirginia Wed 24-Nov-10 21:16:48

If it were me, I would move back to England before the case gets to Court. You need to consider what nationality you want your son to have.

JustaNickname Wed 24-Nov-10 23:00:57

My son was born in Ireland, I did consider just moving but (Being the stupid honest person I am :P) decided to tell my ex instead of just running and he immediately stuck me with a letter for court so I couldn't leave then without causing a whole heap of trouble

babybarrister Fri 26-Nov-10 18:00:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

canyou Fri 26-Nov-10 20:35:23

Babybarrister is right the law differs
My BF is going through the Welsh Courts as her Dh son was removed from Irl to Wales with out his permission, the are going for full custody and have been told that if they do not get it they will have very favourable visitation, the financial cost to be met by the Mother, there is also legal action against the mother being taken in Irl tbh it has gotten very petty and vindictive by all sides and I feel sorry for the child.

The Irish courts will recognise your DP's rights as a parent but must take into account your child's needs of Family, which should be good for you so long as you have a plan to show how you will maintain the father child relationship. The GP's have no say/rights so don't worry there.
If you are in the court process and you remove the child your DC can [very rare] be made a ward of court and you would be in breach of Sec16 of Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 [this is linked to the Hague convention]
Be aware this is advice from some one who was involved as a witness, I have legal training but not family and am not involved in law any more
The above is the worst case scenario

canyou Fri 26-Nov-10 20:41:22

I know you say you will travel every 8 weeks but plan for weekly letter/email, can he visit for school plays you will tell when they are happening school pics are you willing to take them/send them on these are important,
Will his Dad have a say in schooling/inoculation's etc
Plse see about changing you legal adviser the more prepared you are the better it is for you

Leslaki Sat 27-Nov-10 21:58:38

yes - get abetter soliciotor and prepare - I had HMIE (Ofsted in Scotland) reports about the school, photos of the house, statements form eveyone who would be in their life, printed pages from Rightmove tos how the house prices back home etc etc etc. You can do it. Do not promise the earth re visits but promise weekly/biweekly SKYPE and phone calls between your DS and his dad. Good luck x

Resolution Wed 01-Dec-10 15:00:21

You should cross apply for permission to leave the jurisdiction, all as part of the existing court proceedings.

Below are links to 2 interesting articles on the law in this area.

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed61748

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed61960

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