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Welsh Learners Chat and Support Thread

(464 Posts)
alexpolismum Sat 03-Mar-12 14:50:38

Diolch cardibach for the idea!

I'm just getting started as a learner so that's my limit in Welsh so far!

This is where we can chat, use our Welsh as we are learning and give each other help/ advice/ encouragement, etc. smile

daringdoris Tue 06-Mar-12 11:49:36

Mae gen i bachgen sy'n mynd i fod yn 5 yr wythnos nesaf, dw'in 34 oed a wedi bod yn Ffrainc/Llydaw ers 10 flwyddyn. Dw'i ddim yn gweithio heddiw ond fel arfer dw'in dysgu Saesneg i oedolion ac yn gwneud ambell i cyfieithiad (fel ti alexpolismum!) Dw'in mynd i cael cinio fi rwan!

Canolbarth Cymru/Mid Wales here - I'd always thought our words were more North Walian, but perhaps not... bachgen, llaeth etc

alexpolismum Tue 06-Mar-12 12:14:33

Croeso, daringdoris

wyt ti'n cyfieithu (I needed this word, thanks!) Ffrainc-Saesneg? Dw i'n gwneud Groeg-Saesneg, (I love it, it's my dream job!). Dw i wedi bod yn Groeg ers llawer amser.

Is rwan NW and nawr SW? (how funny, just noticed that if you read one backwards, you get the other!grin)

I assume sy'n mynd i fod means 'is going to be'?

alexpolismum Tue 06-Mar-12 12:19:04

Actually, I have a pronunciation question. I can write all these down, because it is easy to copy things out, but I am wondering about the 'y'. I have heard the Say Something in Welsh audio files, plus a couple others from youtube, and I can hear that sometimes it is pronounced 'i' (mynd) and sometimes 'u' (Cymru). Is there a way for me to work out when I see a word how to pronounce the 'y'? I've written down a lot of vocab, and I'm not sure of all the pronunciation.

daringdoris Tue 06-Mar-12 13:02:26

Is this going to turn into one of those threads where everyone realises they know someone's sister/cousin/auntie Gwen/Mr Jones next door?? smile

Bellend, nes I cwrdd a Gymraes efo chwaer yn byw yn agos i lle dw'in dod o, falle hi/ti ydy o!

alexpolismum Dwi ddim yn gwneud llawer iawn o cyfieithu, ond ie, Ffrangeg-Saesneg. Yes, French-English translating, though I mostly teach. I really enjoy translating too, but I'd miss teaching/people too much if I did more of it!

Yep, sy'n mynd i fod=is going to be

Am applying my mind to the 'y' question...I can't see a particular logic for the 2 pronunciations, I think it's a case of learning as you go along (like 'i' in English). 'Ydy' is pronounced 'udi', so both in one word! But I'm no expert, I'm just searching the dusty recesses of my brain, I'm sure someone will know better than me!

BelleEnd Tue 06-Mar-12 14:12:53

I'm racking my brain for a 'y' rule, too, and cannot think of one. There's a difference in pronounciation of u, i and y between north and south too (south tend to be more of an "i" sound for all three, and people like me from the frozen north make more of a difference between the three...)

Mae'n siwr dy fod yn iawn doris! smile

Yes alex nawr=south and rwan=north.

alexpolismum Tue 06-Mar-12 14:43:14

Thanks to our kind native speakers, I do appreciate all this help, and it's very good of you to give up all this time to help us.

Re 'y' - it's ok if I hear a word, obviously. But my problem is that I am learning by myself at the moment, and reading a lot of new vocab in other people's posts, without hearing them said. So here I am wondering whether to say 'dysgu' and 'cyfieithu' as 'uh' or 'i'.

daringdoris Tue 06-Mar-12 15:11:55

Ok, alex, mae geiriau efo 'u' ar y diwedd yn gwneud swn 'ee'.
Words with 'u' at the end make an 'ee' sound (waits for someone to pop up with loads of exceptions!).

belle, ydy dy chwaer di'n canu?

Sut mae pawb arall prynhawn 'ma? How's everyone else this afternoon?? smile

LingDiLong Tue 06-Mar-12 17:02:37

Alex, byddai'n mynd i fy nhosbarth Cymraeg heno, byddai'n gofyn wrth y tiwtor oes mae fe'n rheol am 'y'.

(I will be going to my Welsh class tonight, I'll ask the teacher if there is a rule for 'y')

Ond dw i'n meddwl bod y ateb yw 'na'!

(But I think the answer is no!)

Funtimewincies Tue 06-Mar-12 17:56:45

S'mae. Mi es i fy dosbarth Cymraeg bore 'ma, a roeddwm i'n meddwl am pawb grin.
(Hello. I went to my Welsh class this morning and I was thinking of you all grin)

Also not sure whether that are fixed rules about 'y'. If there are 2 in a word, the first is often 'uh' and the second 'ee/i' but I don't that it's consistent to be called a 'rule' confused.

Diolch yn fawr am helpu Bellend smile.

eatyourveg Tue 06-Mar-12 20:28:05

what I want to know is whats the difference between oes/nagoes, ie/dim, ydy/nagydy and do/naddo? How do you know which to use?

BelleEnd Tue 06-Mar-12 20:40:58

Have PMed you doris smile

Mae arna i ofn nad ydw i'n mynd i fod yn fawr o gymorth ar yr edefyn yma- Tydw i'n gwybod dim am reolau'r iaith am 'mod i wedi ei siarad o'r crud!

I'm afraid that I'm not going to be a lot of help on this thread- I know nothing of the rules of the language because I've spoken it from the cradle!

daringdoris Tue 06-Mar-12 21:10:03

Yep, I learnt Welsh at a very young age, so you're not aware of the rules in the same way as you are when you learn as a teenager/adult - which is why alex is doing so well I suppose - she's used to the 'tools' of language learning.

However I teach English, so I'm going to attempt an answer:

In English, when we answer a question, we use the same auxiliary, eg
Do you like cooking? Yes, I do (like cooking.)

In Welsh, it's the 'yes' which does this, so
Oes gen ti plant? Oes (mae gen i blant.)

So the 'yes' is conjugated with/agrees with the person and the tense, like a verb would be.

My word, I hope that makes some sense!

LingDiLong Tue 06-Mar-12 22:11:56

Reit, yn ol i fy nhiwtor, yr unig rheol gyda 'y' yw oes y gair yn cael mwy na un 'y', yr 'y' cyntaf yw 'uh' ac yr ail 'y' yw 'ee'.

So according to my tutor the only rule she knows of regarding the 'y' is that if the word has more than one 'y' the first sound is usually an 'uh' and the second an 'ee'.

Eatyourveg, daringdoris is right generally you have to listen to the start of the sentence to work out which 'yes' to use as we answer in full 'I will, I am, I was' etc. Do/Naddo are used for all answers regarding the past. Ie/Nage are emphatic yes and no - so sentences which don't start with a verb ie 'Wyt ti'n nyrs?' Answer = Ydw/Nac ydw. 'Nyrs wyt ti?' answer Ie /nage

eatyourveg Tue 06-Mar-12 22:14:19

oes it makes sense, ydy it makes sense, do it makes sense or just ie makes sense but not a clue which one to use in answering! grin

dw'i mynd i llety rwan achos dwi'n (teimlo??) blino. Hwyl pawb

alexpolismum Wed 07-Mar-12 08:00:06

Bore da pawb!

Diolch am y helpu efo 'y'. It seems I'll just have to listen carefully to the radio to hear the pronunciation of words that are not in my audio lessons, if they don't have 2 'y' sounds.

BelleEnd You don't need to know the rules to be of help, all you need to do is model normal, native speaker Welsh for us, and that will be a great help.

I noticed you used cymorth and not helpu that other people have been using. More common in your area? (And is it pronounced "cumorth" or "ceemorth"?)

Heddiw dw i ddim yn gallu gwneud llawer o Gymraeg achos dw i'n (busy).

To the people who are going to Welsh classes - are you using a particular course book? Do you think it's particularly good/ helpful? I'm not sure whether or not to get one.

LingDiLong Wed 07-Mar-12 09:41:52

Bore da! Mae ederfyn hyn wedi dod ymlaen (come along?) ar yr amser perffaith I fi. Roedd e'n noson rhieni ddoe ac dweudodd y athrawes bod fy mab (yn y dderbyn) ddim yn siarad lot o gymraeg, felly mae'n rhaid I fi siarad mwy o gymraeg yn y ty. AC mae arholiadau cymraeg da fi yn mis mai. Ysgrifennu fan hyn yw ymarfer dda I fi.

Funtimewincies Wed 07-Mar-12 10:21:44

Sorry to be a pain, would it be possible for people to include translations for those of us still getting to grips with longer sentence structures blush, so that I know if I'm on the right track.

LingDiLong Wed 07-Mar-12 11:31:50

Rwy'n flin Funtime (I'm sorry!).

I wrote 'Morning! This thread has come along at the perfect time for me. It was parents evening yesterday and the teacher said that my son (in reception) isn't speaking a lot of Welsh (he's in a Welsh school, I didn't explain that in the Welsh bit but should have done!), so I must speak more Welsh at home. AND I have Welsh exams in May. Writing here is good practice for me'.

At least that's what I hope I wrote grin

Funtimewincies Wed 07-Mar-12 15:55:06

Thanks grin.

CakeMixture Wed 07-Mar-12 18:40:43

Shw mae pawb! Mae hi'n heulog heddiw ond gwyntog. Hello everyone. It is (should be 'was' but Ive forgotten) sunny today but windy.

Lindilong pa arholiadau cymraeg? (just for comparisons sake with my own rusty welsh! I did the mynediad exam a couple of years ago - then got a good way through sylfaen level but had to stop sad

Alexpolis - AFAIK all courses now use the same book - you start with the orangey coloured one "mynediad" which means "entry". My laptop is being slow and annoying or I would link to it. I think its published by CBAC?

daringdoris Wed 07-Mar-12 20:34:52

Helo pawb!

alex cymorth=cumorth
There's also the question of register, like trio/ceisio upthread, I'd say this is another example - although it's more than likely that it's used in some parts of Wales and not in others.

cake It was sunny=roedd hi'n heulog.

CakeMixture Wed 07-Mar-12 20:56:29

Obviously (shows how much I have forgotten blush )
Diolch Doris

LingDiLong Wed 07-Mar-12 21:36:12

Cake, arholiadau canolradd! First Welsh exams I've done since my GCSE many years ago. Gulp!

CakeMixture Wed 07-Mar-12 22:39:18

Llongyfarchiadau! Straight in at Canolradd............ envy

alexpolismum Thu 08-Mar-12 08:02:55

Sut mae pawb!

I'm just going to try to use some of the vocab from yesterday.

Roedd hi'n heulog ddoe yma hefyd ond heddiw mae hi'n gwyntog ac yn (bwrw glaw?). Felly mae rhaid i fi ymbrelo.

(I hope that says: It was sunny here yesterday too, but today it is windy and (raining?). So I need an umbrella.)

Dw i'n yfed paned o de nawr, ac yn (ddarllen hanes?) i fy mab bach.

(I'm drinking a cup of tea now, and reading a story to my little son). I'm not quite sure about this, though, I looked up the parts in the dictionary, but that just gives you a word, it doesn't tell you how to use it.

Heddiw dw i'n mynd i gwrando gwers Cymraeg (when ds2 has his nap!)
Today I'm going to listen to a Welsh lesson (thanks daringdoris for that language structure!)

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