3 failed ivfs

[KB2209]

Hi all,

I just had 3rd cycle with CRM - univ hospital Coventry. All 3 cycles (1st one long protocol, last 2 short protocols), had good embryos but didn't implant.

I did endometrial scratch in last cycle as it's supposed to increase implantation rate. I have been doing Accupuncture and added all multivitamins anyone mentioned helps.

Felling a little exasperated and hopeless. I wanted to see what other people's experience has been.

1. Is 3rd cycle too early to get disheartened?

1. Has anyone done biopsy of endometrium? Worth it or just crack on with next cycle?

1. Saw on other posts some people have switched from NHS to private. Is there a huge difference in treatment other than price and attention you get?

Thanks.

[ivfbeenbusy]

I didn't get success until cycle 5 and my 4th transfer - the only thing which made a difference for me was changing from short protocol to natural modified IVF with Create Birmingham

I didnt do the biopsy because Create doesn't believe it makes much difference

I can't say whether there is a difference between NHS and private if you stay with the same clinic? With Create I had scans every other day and blood tests the same. Drugs were tweaked as and when needed. Eggs collections and transfers take place 7 days a week which I know sometimes NHS don't do

I heard good things about CRM and they have really good success rates? But if you feel like you want to try somewhere else I definitely would look elsewhere

[Racinglikeapronow]

If you make good embryos after 3 transfers I would ask clinic to:

• check tubes are open and not leaking any bad fluid that may be affecting embryo development
  
• ERA to check if your window for implantation is different to the clinic
  
• ZFB to check for localised immune reactions in case your body is treating the embryo as hostile
  
• work on eliminating inflammatory foods from your diet and lowering your own levels of inflammation (ie consider cutting right down on sugar. Maybe get intolerance testing in case you’re intolerant to dairy or something that is raising inflammation in your body)
  
• if none of that yields anything maybe consider PGS so you know you’re implanting a normal embryo.

[Racinglikeapronow]

Does your clinic do a blood test? You could ask what your HCG levels were for each transfer and if there was any sign of implantation.

[KB2209]

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me. I'll look into the tests and mild ivf at create.

[Viletta]

After 3 failed cycles I talked to my consultant and she suggested checking immune response, thrombocytes and ERA (endometrium receptivity). I declined the first two tests as I already was taking immune suppressants (prednisone) and aspirin for those conditions so didn't see how this would affect my protocol. But it might be worth checking. I also had thyroid checked before. I was 3h late to my ERA test due to train delays and the test came back as receptive, so my next transfer was 3h late too and successful. Not sure if that 3h made a difference tbh but who knows. I think a lot of it is down to luck. 3 transfers equals trying for a baby naturally for 3 months pretty much. I am not eligible for NHS so went private based on success rates of a clinic. Had one cycle in the UK nothing to freeze and one full cycle in Czech Republic, 2 embryo in the freezer so my last embryo and 4th transfer was successful. Good luck! Stay positive and persistent!

[Weswoo]

Prednisone isn't allowed at the moment due to COVID

[willithappen]

For those who did an intolerance test how/where did you get this done? I tried asking my GP but they wouldn't give me one, just said to try cut certain foods out and see if that helps.
Only thing I know for sure right now is that eggs and my stomach reaallly do not agree.

[Racinglikeapronow]

I did the intolerance testing with a dietician!

[Cikolata]

@KB2209

1. Is 3rd cycle too early to get disheartened? YES, IF YOUR HEALTH DOESN'T GET IN THE WAY (couple of people I know had to leave IVF due to heart, etc. problems), don't get disheartened. I heard people having babies after 9/10/11 cycles. Don't let doctors dishearten you. There are couple of GOOD hospitals/ doctors that were to my surprise very pessimistic to my great surprise.

1. Saw on other posts some people have switched from NHS to private. Is there a huge difference in treatment other than price and attention you get? Depending on which clinic you get at NHS. If you get ARGC or CRGH, you are lucky and may get the same result. Depending on age, reason of infertility, paying for private may make THE big difference. To my surprise, even if you go private, fertility clinics don't assign you to one doctor, you see who is available on that day - yes, in other countries, they assign you to one doctor and s/he follows your treatment. If you can (having met doctors after so many IVFs) get one's number and check with her/ him whether s/he is happy with what duty doc has in mind. Dr. Ozturk at CRGH listens/ follows and known to me to drive results. Good luck.

Remember - transfer does not need to be 3-day, you can have 5-day transfer.

[KB2209]

@Cikolata thank you for taking the time to respond to me. Good to hear a different perspective...it's such a tough process emotionally and physically and failing it after everything feels like such a huge blow that sometimes logic doesn't work.

Thankfully I don't have physical challenges for now, will try to take a deep breath and persevere. 🤞 after that !!!

I am in midlands, will also try to look at other clinics and well rated doctors.

[KB2209]

@Viletta do you mind me asking which clinic in Czech you went to? Congrats btw, glad your treatment worked out.

[Cikolata]

Also, I suggest take a look at Human Growth Hormone. Depending on reason of fertility, it may help. Not all clinics use it.

[Viletta]

@KB2209 I went to Reprofit in Brno. They are super easy going and our results were great there as well.

[MindatWork]

Hi OP, we had 4 failed rounds ( 2 fresh, 2 fet) with Care Fertility, NHS funded.

They wouldn’t do any other investigations apart from standard bloods although our consultant advised I self referred for an endometrial biopsy at Coventry with Dr Siobhan Quemby, to check for issues with uterine lining (nasty experience with a junior doctor and didn’t reveal anything useful!).

The clinic said it was likely an egg quality issue to have so many failed implantations. We went private and had a load of tests including DH sperm fragmentation, blood panel for clotting issues (me) and some others - none really showed anything significant.

How are your DH’s sperm stats? DH had poor morphology which we tackled with a 3 month detox and some supplements /diet changes - I was surprised at how the numbers went up.

We ended up doing PGS on the next cycle which revealed that all 3 blastocysts (which looked perfect under the microscope) had chromosomal abnormalities and weren’t suitable for transfer.

We’d never have known otherwise, and there’s a chance that all the other embryos we had in previous cycles were the same. We took a break but ended up doing a final cycle with CRGH which resulted in 4 good quality, PGS-normal embryos. I’ll be honest, we went for everything and the kitchen sink with the add-ons and they monitored my hormone levels really closely. Did you clinic test your progesterone levels before transfer?

Best of luck xx

[KB2209]

@Cikolata : thanks, will discuss that with clinic. Both my tubes are blocked, will ask if that can help.

[KB2209]

@Viletta thanks for sharing the clinic info. We have to pay ourselves as well, will look into them.

[KB2209]

@MindatWork thanks for sharing your experience in detail. My experience at nhs has been similar to yours where they have followed a std process. No tests done to maximise my chances, for e.g embryo transfer is always 5 days after collection. I wasn't even given the option to PGS test embryos.

Husbands tests were normal. They recommended doing ICSI for better chances, we did that.

Think I m going to go your route of just throwing the kitchen sink at it so atleast we know it's worth burning the money and myself in the process.

[KB2209]

@MindatWork no progesterone tests done during cycle or before transfer as well. Going to request that next time.

Thanks again for taking the time; and wishing you all the best of you haven't been successful yet. I m really grateful for all the support I have received here from strangers. Cannot thank you all enough.

[MindatWork]

No problem and wishing you all the luck. I repeatedly expressed concern about my progesterone levels as I always bled before test day. I was told it wasn’t an issue with the nhs but when we did our private cycle, the progesterone blood test done along with my hcg test (to confirm pregnancy) showed my levels had nosedived. I was already on 3 forms of progesterone (pill, gel, injection) but they phoned in a panic and put me on an additional type of prog injection twice daily . I think some women struggle to absorb it properly, but I’ll never know for definite if that’s what made the difference.

Best of luck, feel free to pm me with any specific questions x

[MindatWork]

I was very lucky to be successful with that last round at CRGH. Hoping you have the same success x

[MummyAni]

We are looking at CRGH for IVF. Has anyone had any experience with CRGH? Which consultant would you recommend? We want someone used to treating women in their late 30's with good outcomes.
Has anyone been treated by Jara Ben Nagi?
All advice welcome!
x

[Cikolata]

1. Is 3rd cycle too early to get disheartened? It is, it took me 9. BUT, unfortunately there is not a promise 9 will be enough :(( Wonderful news eggs/ embryos are good quality, that is one thing that cannot be changed all that much - except with hgh, etc.

1. Has anyone done biopsy of endometrium? Worth it or just crack on with next cycle? I did not need to, my problem was something else, but I know it was definitely needed for a close friend of mine and she did it and had her baby.

1. Saw on other posts some people have switched from NHS to private. Is there a huge difference in treatment other than price and attention you get? Never used NHS... It is the same organisations and doctors working on you -BUT I am sure private makes a difference and not only that, they will try to push you to any doctor that is there that day - even in private - catch one and keep him! Get mobile number and if he is not there, text to confirm he is happy with what hormones they give you that day. Good luck

[KB2209]

Thanks Cikolata...all my tests came ok so guess just going to crack on with next cycle and pray it works 😊. I m gonna try doing the embryo biopsy, the heartache of a failed transfer is just too much

[FingersXssd83]

How old are you and how many eggs/embryos do you get and how many embryos have you transferred? Depending on your age and other background, 3 cycles is only just getting you to an even chance of a positive test, so try not to be too pessimistic as the next cycle and transfer could work. It's easy to say now as each failed cycles killed me but cycle 4 was the one that worked x

[AliceInWonderland2021]

Ozkan Ozturk. CRGH was our 4th clinic, I had already has 6 cycles before we got there. And I had 3 cycles there. But, he cared and finally we got our wish.