First cycle failed. What to do next? Advice needed

[Jo99999]

Posting my questions again as a fresh thread as my other post was appended to an old post.

I had my first fresh cycle. 4 follicles, 3 mature eggs all fertilised. 2 fertilised eggs developed to day 3 but not blastocyst. 1 blastocyst in the end. The clinic had an omission and did not provide literal support in my fresh cycle so I had to wait for one month and did the frozen cycle. It does not seem to be working as it stands now. I started red spotting and it is not tiny bit. My clinic asked me to continue as planned and do the test in due time. I don’t have much faith left in this round.

Since I don’t produce that many follicles, I am thinking natural ivf or natural modified may be more suitable for me. I also consider changing clinic since there was an error in the drug and dispute over it which was not pleasant.

Is there anyone with experience of natural ivf or natural modified? Is it more suitable to me? Which clinic can you recommend? Is it easy to change clinic? Can I get all the medical history from the current clinic or do I need to do all the tests and screenings again?

Sorry I have so many questions. It would be good to hear from someone with more experiences. Thanks!

[itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted]

I switched from short protocol to natural modified IVF with Create. I was getting good numbers of follicles with short protocol IVF but blastocyst quality wasn't great

I've found that with natural modified I get far fewer eggs (2-7 compared to 14) but my fertilisation rate and blastocyst quality is much munch better

[babyboy20]

Hey,

I am currently 22 weeks after 2nd round of ivf. 1st round was long protocol and pretty much exactly the same outcome as yours 4 eggs with one embryo making it to blastocyst. All not great quality.

We switched to short protocol on 2nd round and got 10eggs with 5 making it to blastocyst. We had one fresh embryo transfer and have 4 Frosties. Also eggs were top grade which I strongly believe was partly down to taking coq10 vitamins.

Looking back on our first round, I really think of it as trial and error. It's so hard to predict how you will respond to medication etc the first time and have so much more knowledge going forward is a huge positive.

I hope everything works out for you this time but if not, try to stay positive despite how heartbreaking it is x

[Jo99999]

@itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted, Thanks! with natural modified, did you get just one fertilised egg or more?

[itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted]

@Jo99999
So far my natural modified cycles have been like this

cycle 1 - 2 follicles - 2 eggs - 2 blastocysts

cycle 2 - 7 follicles - 7 eggs - 2 blastocysts

cycle 3 - ??? Was supposed to start last week but has been cancelled - they think because body needs a rest after doing the previous egg collections back to back with no break in between

I'm a firm believer that my body just isn't capable of making more than 2 blastocysts in any one month so we have been concentrating on making those 2 the best quality they possibly can

I'll transfer on the next collection hopefully next month x

[Jo99999]

@babyboy20, thanks for the encouragement. Congratulations on your success. I will definitely pick up co q10. Thanks for the tip!

[Jo99999]

@itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted, thanks for details. What is the drug regime with natural modified? Just wonder how it compares against short protocol.

You got quite many eggs in the 2nd cycle which is already more than my stimulated anyway. That’s really good. Hope to hear your good news.

[itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted]

My first natural Modified was tamoxifen tablets daily from cycle day 3 and 150ml bemfola every OTHER day - I had egg collection on cycle day 12

Second cycle was the same but Bemfola was upped to daily to push for a few more eggs x

[Bee369]

Hi, hope you don’t mind Me joining I’m
Also looking for similar advice... first cycle nhs I got 3 embryos to freeze, first one took but miscarriage due to v rare heart defect. 2nd didn’t take and I’m now concerned about quality of third (bc grade)...

Just been at create and they suggest starting again, fresh cycle, lower dose meds - not sure how I feel about discounting third embryo, equally feel it’s sensible to get more eggs out now maybe with the lower dose of drugs?

Thanks so much for any advice! X

[Jo99999]

I have decided staying with current clinic in the end. It still has one of the highest stats for my age group. Lower med 2 freeze all cycles and see how it goes. Freeze all gives me the flexibility as to the timing of transfer. It looks like Create still gives injections albeit lower. I looked at Create stats for my age group are too high and not many cycles.

[Bee369]

Sorry @Jo99999 why clinic is it you are with? I’m really struggling tonight to make a decision! Great that you have gone with a choice well done - onwards! Xxx

[Bee369]

What not why!

[Jo99999]

@bee369, I am with CRGH. I meant Create stats for my age group is not too high and the sample size is small. Lister and Care stats are also good and at par with CRGH. I was looking at 3-year data with a good sample size. At the end of the day, maybe they are similar. It all depends on luck. Which clinic did you use?

[Bee369]

@Jo99999 I’ve been at homerton but trying to decide between Create and CRGH now! Trying to work out which will be best as our issue is on the male side. Bit worried Create won’t get us the levels of eggs we need to counteract that with ‘mild’ treatment. Thank so much for sharing your research and experience! X

[itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted]

@Bee369
I've done 2 rounds of mild stim with create and 3 natural modified and I actually get more follicles/eggs/blastocysts than my friends on "full"ivf

Cycle 1 - 14 eggs - 3 average blastocysts

Cycle 2 - 14 eggs - 2 average blastocysts

Cycle 1 natural modified - 2 eggs 2 good quality blastocysts

Cycle 2 natural modified - 7 eggs - 2 top quality blastocysts

My egg quality isn't great and was getting less than 40% fertilised so we decided to strip out most of the medication and go for a more natural treatment - less eggs but 100% fertilised and much higher quality blastocysts so in my case quality is much better than quantity

I firmly believe some people just aren't capable of making more than 2 blastocysts per cycle so why force your body to make more?

[Bee369]

That is really helpful to know thank you so much! X

[Jo99999]

@itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted
@bee369

I am really torn. Still reading on the internet. I came across this study which seems to justify Create approach. www.hindawi.com/journals/ijrmed/2014/581451/
My current clinic suggests to lower med from 225 iu merifort and 225 iu fostimon to 150 iu each so still 300 iu per day. But looking at the study, it should be just 150 iu per day. But I am worried that Create has not done many cycles comparatively. I am also worried about the drug tamoxifen which is a breast cancer drug when I googled.

[itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted]

@Jo99999
I took tamoxifen for the first 2 natural modified and had little to no side effects - it has a similar affect to clomid and so is really only used where you don't ovulate frequently/don't produce many follicles. I do ovulate fine on my own so for my final cycle won't be taking it to ensure that I can do a fresh transfer

Some people in other forums prefer tamoxifen due to the supposed risk between clomid and autism

[Bee369]

@Jo99999 interesting thanks for that study! I’ve had an initial consultation with create and doing the same with crgh this week, plus seeing my nhs clinic - will
Attempt To decide after that! We really
Need icsi / male fertility expertise...