Antisperm antibodies

[magpiecounter]

Posted in conception too for traffic.

We have been told that we cannot have IVF and instead need ICSI due to my DH having 100% antisperm antibodies. We are wondering two things:

1: will ICSI help if 100% of his sperm has these antibodies? Surely that's us done!

2: how has this happened when we had a child easily five years ago. The dr said it's from trauma but he hasn't had a trauma so we are at a loss as to where it's come from. He's actually worried that there's something seriously wrong he needs to get checked out

TIA

[lulahbelle]

Hi magpiecounter, my husband also has 100% antisperm antibodies so we had ICSI and we always had good fertilisation rates in our fresh cycles and produced good quality embryos.

As it was explained to me, the antibodies stop the sperm swimming (so they can’t reach the egg) and/or being able to enter the egg if they do reach it - ICSI overcomes both those issues.

I have no idea why this is happened when you had a child easily five years ago, I have no idea! When we started fertility investigations, my husband’s sperm analysis came back completely clear, yet somehow by the time of our first egg collection six months later he had 100% sperm antibodies. We’ve never established why.

Good luck with your cycle if/when you start it.

[magpiecounter]

@lulahbelle thank you for replying. I think it's knocked us for six a bit as I'm on day three of injections and it feels like someone could have told us three years ago when we started this process and first got fertility testing done.

It's nice to hear that ICSI gave you good fertilisation rates. Hopefully it resulted in some lovely children too for you both. Xx

[bob1985]

Hi @magpiecounter

We also had anti bodies, went straight to icsi. Git a great fertilisation rate in both cycles.

It's frustrating, we only found out at the very last stage before treatment so very nearly started a 'standard ' ivf cycle.

[magpiecounter]

@bob1985 we started the first day of injections to be told we owed another £1500 because we had been listed as an ICSI cycle instead of the ivf we had already paid for. There was no choice really as we could lose all the money (due to already starting injections) or pay the extra to get ICSI. Obviously we have had to pay. Just have to hope it works.

Great to hear two different people saying great fertilisation rates though. That gives me hope. Our first child was a dream pregnancy and very easily conceived so I guess this is my karma and it will be a struggle.

[bob1985]

@magpiecounter that's shocking!

I read somewhere that testing for anti bodies sometimes isn't done at all as the only effective treatment is icsi. I'm not sure how that makes sense, surely that leads to wasted cycles??

You DH hasn't had any infections such as mumps at all ? I believe they can also lead to anti bodies

[magpiecounter]

@bob1985 it probably does lead to failed cycles but at £7000 a cycle they will benefit greatly from failures if people try more than once.

He had mumps as a small child (about three) but our son is only five and he was conceived easily so it must be something in the last five years.

[Mrbay]

Hey, my DH had a high rate of anti bodies and combined with my issues I didn't think we've have a lot of luck with IVF.

I managed to get 3 eggs at collection, all 3 got to day 5/6 and have one inside (currently on 2ww) and 2 in the freezer so don't give up hope, I nearly did!

[Nan0second]

Yep another one with a DH with 100% antisperm antibodies.
We only got 7 eggs (pcos) but 5 fertilised and made 4 blastocysts. We had a fresh cycle which ended in miscarriage then a frozen which is my daughter and now back for a potential sibling.
ICSI worked great for us

[Cariad82]

I just wanted to comment on this thread because my husband also had antibodies - 97%. We were also told there was no treatment and ICSI was the only option. We signed up for the ICSI and went ahead with the (ultimately unsuccessful) cycle but I also went away and did LOADS of research and found a study that had shown high doses of vitamin C had improved antibodies in test subjects. So I got him to take 1000mg a day of vitamin C. On our second cycle 3 months later his sperm was tested again on egg collection day and the antibodies were 12%. He's continues with the vitamin C ever since and the antibodies have stayed in normal range.

It might not work for everyone but it's worth trying - a waaaaay cheaper solution than ICSI!

[magpiecounter]

@Cariad82 that's fantastic! Hopefully everything works out well for you now. We had our ICSI last Wednesday and had 8 fertilised out of 10 eggs collected with six progressing. We had two transferred yesterday of top quality 5 day blastocysts ( rest to be donated) xx

[Cariad82]

That's great news for you. Congratulations on doing so well so far. Hopefully this is your BFP x

[applecrumbl3]

Hi @Cariad92 - v interested to see your post regarding Vit C. Would you mind sharing some more info regarding the dose and what he took? Also the research you read if you can remember it. We have the same problem... have already embarked on first try at ICSI, but it would be good to see if we can maybe solve this problem, either for next time or if this cycle doesn't work! Thanks in advance!

[applecrumbl3]

Sorry typo - @Cariad82 I mispelled your name above!

[Cariad82]

Hi @applecrumbl3

I can't for the life of me remember which piece of research I read - I don't seem to have written it down anywhere and it was quite a while back now and so many research topics ago for me. If you have a Google though of ASA'a and Vitamin C, or ASA's and antioxidants I'm sure you'll find what I read.

But anyway, the dose is 1000mg and he just takes a supermarket brand. Nothing fancy. When I read the research I just figured it's a cheap thing to try and it won't do him any harm so why not. I was hoping it would make a bit of a difference and was so shocked when the ASA's came down that much. It was only about 5 weeks from him starting taking the Vit C to the sperm test where they said the result was now normal.

I was hoping the noram sperms meant we might concieve naturally, but it turned out we have other issues. We're 3 ICSI cycles down now because we signed up to a multi cycle package when we started. He still takes the Vit C, as well as Condensyl, zinc and vitamin E. He has perfect sperm (!) now apparently, he just keeps taking them just in case.

I hope that helps. Good luck.

[applecrumbl3]

@Cariad82 thanks very much. We have various other issues as well, so will definitely continue with the ICSI, but it would be nice if perhaps we didn't have to go through it twice! I'm absolutely amazed by the results you quote given that the advice is there's nothing to do except ICSI?! Next hurdle will be to persuade him to take them :-/

[Cariad82]

I know. Like I said, I wasn't remotely expecting that decrease. And we were told by our consultant that there was absolutely nothing that can be done for ASA's. I can't think of any other thing that might have caused that improvement though. I get very frustrated with the doctors sometimes - they just don't seem to be open to new research or to things that might help. And they all seem to have different opinions. I always think as long as something won't cause harm surely it's worth a try. I now never take their word at anything and do my own research on ever bit of treatment, every test result, every diagnosis, every procedure. And it's forced me to become really pushy about what I want. Like it's not hard enough going through treatment without constantly feeling like you're almost doing their job for them.

Anyway...rant over! Best of luck.

[magpiecounter]

@Cariad82 this is really personal so don't worry if you don't want to answer. What were the other causes that meant ICSI didn't work? I'm currently in the panic stage of the tww 🤦🏼‍♀️

[Cariad82]

It's fine I don't mind answering.

I've had unexplained bleeding between periods for 11 years, various investigations but no answer. Never been pregnant. TTC for a couple of years, sent for tests, all normal. Eventually referred for IVF.

First cycle I didn't get any eggs. They didn't know why. All my test results were normal and it looked like I had some decent follicles.

2nd cycle got 2 eggs, 1 top grade day 5 blast transferred but the other embryo wasn't good enough to freeze. Had a chemical pregnancy.

3rd cycle got 1 egg, transferred at day 2 because no point in waiting, another chemical pregnancy.

Throughout they've had real difficulty seeing my ovaries in scans and getting to them at egg collection. After the third fail they said this was highly unusual (first time I'd been told this) and I need to have a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy before my next cycle, which I've now had a consultation for and am on the waiting list for. They reckon something could be blocking access to my ovaries and if it gets sorted there might be more eggs. During my consultation the gynae removed a polyp he could see coming out of my cervix and said my uterus felt bumpy and some pain I'd experienced meant it looked like endometriosis. He also thinks I could have loads of polyps in my uterus which means the embryo is implanting (hence the chemicals) but then there's not enough blood supply so they're dying.

I've also had the greek infection tests and am currently on antibiotics for ureaplasma.

I'm really really hoping that the lap and hysteroscopy find the problem and then hopefully we can resolve it. But I'm worried about the risk that removal of endometriosis around the ovaries reduces your ovarian reserve so am in a panic about that at the moment and trying to figure out if I should tell the surgeon to remove it if they see it or leave it. I'm 37 now and my AMH is in the low end of normal for my age so not a lot of wiggle room.

The TWW is horrendous. I found it the worst time of the whole thing and really struggled so my heart goes out to you. I really hope you get your happy ending.x