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'Poor quality' blastocyst experiences/outcomes?

(24 Posts)
Twiglet2353 Sun 24-Mar-19 06:46:03

Hi everyone. I'm looking for people's experiences good or bad with low grade embryo transfers.

After a successful fertilisation of 15 eggs, only 4 made it to day 5 blastocyst. The best quality of those was a 3BC which was transferred yesterday. None were deemed suitable for freezing, however I wasn't told what grade these were.

Everything I've read seems to suggest that Grade C trophectoderm leads to very low pregnancy rates, and subsequent high miscarriage rates.

Wondering what other people's experiences or pregnancy outcomes have been?

andbreatheagain Sun 24-Mar-19 15:36:39

I have a frozen blast graded at 5BC and everything I read on the internet suggested that many people still had positive outcomes with a BC grading?
I found this on the internet which gives success rates for each grading?
I've just had a failed FET with a 3BA and I've read of loads of people having failed rounds with AA blasts and successful rounds with low grade ones.
(Sometimes it feels though that good stuff like that only ever happens to other people and not me though!) x

Twiglet2353 Sun 24-Mar-19 16:18:26

Thanks for replying @andbreatheagain. I hate how it's all a numbers game!

Wish you luck with your 5BC - it looks from your table they have a good success rate. Obviously the expansion and hatching of the blast really helps 🙂
Are you planning to transfer soon?

andbreatheagain Sun 24-Mar-19 16:54:23

My failed 3BA was only a week or so ago so my clinic has said to wait for our next cycle so I think we ll be doing a transfer end of April? We have a 3BA and a 5BC frozen and they have agreed to transfer both this time

When will you find out if your transfer has been successful? X

Twiglet2353 Sun 24-Mar-19 17:09:09

@andbreatheagain my OTD is 5th April and going to try and hold out until then, although it will be hard.
A 3BA and a 5BC sounds like a really good shot x

hoping2018 Sun 24-Mar-19 21:24:03

Hi twig let,

I’m afraid I don’t have a positive story about low quality blastocysts but my ivf sounds similar to yours so I thought I would share my story.

We had ICSI due to MFI and also reduced ovarian reserve. On cycle one we got 14 fertilised embryos but only 2 made it to blastocyst and both were poor quality - AC and BC. They said neither were good enough to freeze and offered for us to put 2 in but as I am young and it was our first cycle we opted for 1 (we were also terrified of the complications of twin pregnancies) unfortunately it was a bfn and the BC embryo went to waste!

The consultant said it’s really unusual to get lots fertiliSe but few good quality blasts. He said there was clearly a quality problem but they did not know if it was the sperm or egg or both. He told me to take co-Q10, melatonin and DHEA to help with quality (I wouldn’t take these unless your consultant recommends) and we tested my husband for sperm dna fragmentation. His results came back borderline high so the consultant suggested surgical removal of sperm for the next cycle.

Cycle 2 we got 13 fertilised embryos and by day 3 we seemed to have a similar problem - only 4 good quality embryos left and none were the “8 cells” they should be. They advised us to transfer the best 2 on day 3 which we did. Day 5 and 6 we got two blastocysts good enough to freeze this time!!! Then I got a BFP - I am currently typing this with my gorgeous 7 week old boy fast asleep next to me!! After our first disastrous cycle we told chance of success was 5-10% with ivf! I was devastated - but it did work and in my opinion the surgical retrieval of sperm made the difference!

Finally, they say egg quality effects day 1-3 of development and sperm quality day 4 and 5. We did embryoscope/time lapse both times which was really helpful in seeing where the embryos faltered - did you do this at all? If not you may want to consider another time - but hopefully there won’t be another time and this one works for you!! (I have heard of plenty of people with success with a BC)

Good luck!

Twiglet2353 Sun 24-Mar-19 21:41:03

Thank you so much for that @hoping2018. Was really interesting hearing your story and so wonderful that you've got your special baby.
No embryoscope mentioned, just had embryo glue as clinic standard. Not really had anything properly explained to us I feel. Didn't even have my lining remeasured at ET (after it being 7.1mm on EC day). I'm tempted to ring the clinic tomorrow to ask questions such as do they not allow the blasts to develop a little more before discarding completely.

I don't understand much about embryology but wondered if they were assessed a few hours later the grading could have changed? The embryologist made some comment from the lab when she showed us the embryo on the screen that it had changed since she'd last looked at it, but I couldn't hear what she was saying properly.

My consultant had warned that my endometriosis could lead to poor quality eggs so I wonder if they would suggest those supplements if we went for a private cycle

theowlwhowasafraidofthedark Sun 24-Mar-19 21:43:26

I’ve had success with 5aa and 3ac fresh embryos. Failures with 5ab and 5bb. Try not to over analyse it can drive you crazy...

theowlwhowasafraidofthedark Sun 24-Mar-19 21:43:55

Easier said than done I know

junenotoffred Sun 24-Mar-19 22:04:33

Hi, I wouldn't normally say what I'm about to say as I can remember all too well how utterly awful stories like this used to make me feel, but you did ask! My final 2 embryos were of such poor quality I was advised they wouldn't survive being frozen, but I'm stubborn & wasn't ready to give up even though I knew I couldn't do another fresh cycle. The worst of the worst - can't remember the grading any more sorry, not only froze, but defrosted well & implanted (my only BFP in 16 years of fertility treatment) and is now fast asleep upstairs as a happy healthy 4 year old. Still can't believe it sometimes - I had 9 embryo transfers over the years (fresh & frozen) and none other was such a poor quality. Makes no sense. Good luck smile

Twiglet2353 Sun 24-Mar-19 22:09:04

Thanks @theowlwhowasafraidofthedark and @junenotoffred (your username has made me excited for the next series of Handmaids Tale!!)

Starship12 Tue 26-Mar-19 09:05:12

Hi Twiglet.
I’m sorry I was never told what grade my embryo was (only had one blastocyst at day 5, and one morula) but then again I only had 4 eggs collected!
On the day of ET, the embryologist basically told me that the transfer was extremely unlikely to result in pregnancy and ‘good luck for next time’. She also suggested transferring back the morula with the poor quality blastocyst.
Well, that blastocyst is now 5 months old! There is only so much you can tell about quality from looking down a microscope clearly. Good luck xx

Twiglet2353 Tue 26-Mar-19 21:19:39

Thank you @Starship12, what a lovely story 🙂
I spoke with the embryologist today who went through things in a little bit more detail, and whilst it's not the 'perfect' scenario re grading, there is definitely still hope 🤞

theowlwhowasafraidofthedark Thu 18-Apr-19 14:49:23

Any update OP?

Twiglet2353 Thu 18-Apr-19 15:09:00

@theowlwhowasafraidofthedark I got my BFP! Currently 6+3. Very anxious and have a scan booked for 8 weeks, but so far so good 🤞
Thanks for checking in x

theowlwhowasafraidofthedark Fri 19-Apr-19 20:22:34

Yay!!!
Good luck

Cutesbabasmummy Sat 20-Apr-19 08:46:46

I can't remember what grade my 4 zombies were but they weren't looking good so we had a day 3 fresh transfer( this was with DE). It didn't work. We had 2 make it to day 5 blast which we froze. Went back to Alicante 2 months later and had the day 5 frostie put in. He's now 4 and arguing about eating his breakfast with his dad! Day 5 has much greater success so please dont lose hope x

Nybbcoming Thu 21-Nov-19 18:01:01

My IVF journey is very similar to you. Actually I just got back from Lister hospital today with a huge disappointment sad I had 15 eggs retrieved, 12 got fertilised, day 3 still 12 embryos and I was told they were good quality (A or B). Today I went for a fresh transfer and was told I only have 4 blasts made it to day 5. 1 good quality (not sure about the grading) and 1 poor quality (not able to survive if frozen) the other 2 are still early blasts and they will let us know tomorrow whether these 2 will make it! I didn’t have a fresh transfer in the end as I have some mild OHSS symptoms and I also feel so emotional at that point, so rather wait until I’m fully recovered.
I am so confused about the fact that I have 12 good quality embryos on day 3 but only one blasts left to freeze and transfer on day 5! Is it normal?? It feels like rollercoaster and now I just hope these 2 blasts will make it to day 6!

Twiglet2353 Thu 21-Nov-19 18:40:35

@Nybbcoming ah it's such a scary time isn't it. Pleased to tell you though that I'm almost 38 weeks pregnant now with my 3BC embryo. The only significant aspect to the pregnancy is that I have low Papp-a, which is a hormone to do with placental implantation. Due to the grading of the trophectoderm it does explain why I have low levels of this hormone, and puts me at higher risk of growth restriction, pre-eclampsia and miscarriage. However I have been closely monitored in this pregnancy and I'm getting induced in just over a week.

Wishing you all the luck x

itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted Thu 21-Nov-19 18:44:55

@Nybbcoming
That is a big drop off rate......
Days 1-3 is dictated by egg quality so sounds like you have good quality eggs......Day 3-5 though is dictated by sperm quality......does your partner have male factor infertility issues?

sallysparrow157 Thu 21-Nov-19 19:02:53

Good luck for next week!!
My fresh transfer a year ago of a 5AA was a BFN, I had 4 frozen but all pretty poor quality. Had a frozen cycle in Feb, recommended I have 2 transferred due to my age and the poor quality of the embryos (I don’t remember what grade exactly they were but both were 3 and B’s and C’s)
My twin girls are 7 weeks old today!
In the early stages of pregnancy when I was googling everything I possibly could I read that lower grades are more likely to be girls

Twiglet2353 Thu 21-Nov-19 19:19:10

@sallysparrow157 ahh how lovely! I didn't know that re more likely to be girls. We've kept the sex a surprise so will have to let you know if it rings true for us also smile

Nybbcoming Thu 21-Nov-19 21:41:29

This is such a great news and good luck with everything!! IVF is such a difficult journey, but guess we just need to be positive and hope for the best!

Nybbcoming Thu 21-Nov-19 21:53:37

@itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted
This is the strange thing, my husband’s semen analysis seems all right. I don’t know what went wrong but will have the consultation next week. We have “unexplained infertility” issue and we’ve decided to go private rather than via NHS as I don’t want to wait and feel more confident about Lister hospital! Now I was wondering if the whole thing worth itsad
Anyway, I am trying to keep a positive mind. You just need a good one at the end of the day rightstar

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