help....unsupportive employer!

[Tulip20]

Hi

I am a nurse and am currently having IVF after ttc for 3 years.

I had a fresh cycle of IVF last year and took 2 days of holiday from work (1 for egg collection day, 1 for transfer day). My manager was reasonably supportive, but I made sure to take the minimum to affect work as little as possible.

Unfortunately that cycle was unsuccessful and I am now due to start a medicated frozen cycle. I again needed one day of holiday for embryo transfer day. I was massively shocked when my manager told me this week that she would not authorise it as it falls on a week she is on holiday. She told me that I could only do the cycle when was convenient for work. She knows how long I have been waiting for this and how important it is for me.

I don't know what to do. There is no IVF policy for me to refer to so she said I don't have the right to take annual leave just when it suits me. I was so upset and feel so unsupported. I am also worried if this cycle does not work I will be in the same position again in a few months time. Although i love my job, I am worried now that i will be forced to choose and need to resign.

Desperately need some advice!

Thanks
Tulip x

[cherryontopp]

I would phone in sick if im honest. She would have to prove you werent sick, not you prove that u were

[Aridane]

There is a lot of legal stuff and sex discrimination associated with IVF treatment

[Aridane]

I don't really understand this - but here is an extract from a legal article on this:

In vitro fertilisation (IVF) treatment


Decisions from the ECJ and EAT have provided some clarity on the protection provided to employees who are undergoing IVF treatment (for an outline of which, see ). The current position, endorsed by the Employment Statutory Code of Practice, produced by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) (the EHRC Code), is that:




•When a woman is undergoing IVF treatment, a protected period starts when fertilised ova are implanted (when she is regarded as being pregnant). When an implantation fails, and the pregnancy ends, the protected period ends after a further two weeks have elapsed in accordance with section 18(6) of the EqA 2010. If an employer treats an employee unfavourably during this period she can claim pregnancy and maternity discrimination (see Practice note, Pregnancy and maternity discrimination (EqA 2010)).




•In addition, a woman undergoing IVF treatment will be protected for an additional, albeit limited, period of time before implantation. This is the time it takes for ova to be collected, fertilised and for the "immediate" implantation of the fertilised ova thereafter. An employer that treats an employee less favourably because she is undergoing IVF treatment is likely to be found to have discriminated against her because of sex (see Practice note, Sex discrimination (EqA 2010)).



In Mayr v Bäckerei und Konditorei Gerhard Flöckner OHG C-506/06 [2008] IRLR 387, the ECJ held that:




•Article 10 of the Pregnant Workers Directive, which prohibits the dismissal of pregnant workers other than for reasons "not connected with their condition", did not extend to a female worker who was undergoing IVF treatment where, on the date she was given notice of dismissal, her ova had been fertilized but not implanted. At this point in time she was not pregnant.




•However, Articles 2(1) and 5(1) of the Equal Treatment Directive prohibited the dismissal of a female worker who was at an advanced stage of IVF treatment (that is, from the time that her ova were collected until fertilised ova were implanted) where her dismissal was essentially based on the fact that she was undergoing that treatment. The ECJ specifically rejected this period applying to a long period between the freezing of fertilised ova with a view to implanting at a later date.



For further information, see Legal update, ECJ: dismissal of female worker for receiving IVF treatment can amount to sex discrimination.


The EAT in Sahota v Home Office and Pipkin UKEAT/0342/09 applied the ECJ's decision in Mayr which, it held, had been deliberately narrow. There was a limited and closely defined period of protection for a woman undergoing IVF treatment: the "important" stage "between the follicular puncture and the immediate transfer of the in vitro fertilised ova". (See Legal update, Sex discrimination: protection during IVF treatment.)


The EHRC Code recommends that employers treat requests for time off for IVF treatment "sympathetically" and that employers may wish to establish procedures for allowing time off for IVF and fertility treatment. These procedures may enable women to notify designated members of staff on a confidential basis that they are having treatment (paragraph 17.2.9). The Code also suggests that less favourable treatment of a woman because she is undergoing IVF is likely to be sex discrimination even though it would not amount to pregnancy discrimination until the point at which the embryos were implanted (paragraphs 8.44 and 17.2.8).

[Aridane]

I wonder if it might be worth posting in Employment or Legal?

[hoping2018]

Hi @Tulip20 , your employer is not allowed to do this and I expect doesn't realise she is informing you incorrectly.

You can call ACAS (m.acas.org.uk/) which gives free employment advice and they will inform you that appointments for ivf must be treated like any other medical condition.

I'd give ACAS a call and check your rights. Good luck x

[NorthernLurker]

I think the problem is that the op is asking for annual leave nor leave for ivf. Anybody asking for leave would get the same response presumably? Annual leave is granted according to service need and the manager is saying the service can't have more than one off at a time. I agree there needs to be some common sense and humanity applied to the situation however. Have you spoken to your hr department?

[Jenga0808]

Hi Tulip,

I'm a midwife and have found occupational health to be really helpful during my cycles. Also have a look at this www.rcn.org.uk/get-help/rcn-advice/time-off-work

[Tulip20]

Thank you so much for your advice. That is really helpful. I am just shocked by how inflexible she is being, and how a healthcare organisation can have such little regard for its employees own health and wellbeing.
On our hospital absence policy it states that if possible staff should organise any doctor/hospital appointments in their own time, or at a time suitable to both employee and employer, so I am assuming that is where she is coming from. But I do feel it is quite tricky with IVF as things need to happen on specific days so I can't just rearrange for the next week etc. I also spoke to someone in HR who was really unhelpful and told me it was just between me and my manager.
I did speak to occupational health however and our staff support service who were very supportive and understanding, and very surprised by her attitude. They advised me to see my GP, which is what I will probably do next.

I just feel so stressed now at a time that I was hoping to be as relaxed as possible :(.

Tulip x

[eurochick]

Even if you "win" the point this will likely cause stress so I'd be inclined to wait a month if you can. I did four rounds of ivf and worked them around various work commitments.

[hoping2018]

The only thing your gp will be able to do is sign you off sick for the period. Which will get you your ivf at the right time! But have a think about ongoing relationship shops with your manager - good luck x